We talk to the lead writer of Clair Obscur to learn more about inspirations, challenges, and the story

There was already a lot of hype surrounding Clair Obscur: Expedition 33 even before its release, thanks to its unusual concept of a French role-playing game based on Japanese premises, complete with a very distinctive - and beautiful - look. When it launched this spring, it turned out to be just as brilliant as people had hoped, providing a much-needed revitaliser for turn-based combat.

Perhaps most impressive, however, was its well-written script with strong characters and a challenging, thought-provoking story which made the heart bleed on more than one occasion. The woman behind it all is Jennifer Svedberg-Yen, who somewhat unexpectedly lives in northern Sweden in a small town called Östersund. I have been working in games for 23 years and done countless interviews before, but never in Östersund, which also happens to be my hometown where I live.

That's why I contacted Jennifer Svedberg-Yen to do an interview about her journey and inspiration, which eventually resulted in the outstanding multi-million seller Clair Obscur: Expedition 33. Fast forward a few weeks of conflicting schedules, travel, and a hefty mancold, and I finally got the chance to visit and sit down at her kitchen table for the interview. I brought along my partner (a former Gamereactor co-worker) as a photographer, and she has also played the adventure, and had some thoughts of her own.

Before you read on, I want to warn anyone who hasn't played Clair Obscur: Expedition 33 yet that there will be spoilers galore here. Anyone who hasn't finished the game and intends to do so should choose something else to read for now. With that said, enjoy.

You live in a small town in northern Sweden. How did your journey unfold that ultimately led to you being a celebrated author of a French RPG with Japanese gameplay?

Svedberg-Yen: It's kind of a random story! I grew up in the US and I've lived in various places around the world. I was in Australia around the time of COVID and I was bored. Everybody was locked down. There wasn't much to do. And I saw a post on Reddit from Guillaume Broche, who is the Creative Director of the game. At the time, he was working on a passion project in his spare time and he was looking for free voice actors for a technical test. And so that's how we first connected - I did some random voices for this test.

It was a different game, different characters, different concept. But we started talking and started discussing the story. And first I offered to help him with some of the dialogue. And then as we discussed the story more and more, he's like, oh, would you like to help me with the story? And then later on, when they formed the studio and started talking to different investors and advisors, they said "you can think bigger," you know, like don't overly constrain yourself now. Because at the time we thought it would be a very small project. I mean, we're still very small, but we thought it would be even smaller, so we kept the scope small. Then Guillaume called me and said, 'Hey, what do you think about a reboot? We're gonna reboot, we're gonna start all over from scratch.' And I said okay, let's do it! And that's when we formed the foundations of Expedition 33.

A year and a half later, COVID was somewhat under control and lockdown lifted. Sadly, around that time, my husband's father was diagnosed with cancer, so we decided to move to Sweden to be closer to him. One silver lining, I guess, was that it brought me closer to the Sandfall team, who are all based in France. At least we're in the same time zone now. So that's kind of how I ended up in Östersund and how I ended up with Sandfall.

When you're writing for interactive media, like video games, how does that differ from writing, let's say, a book or a movie?

Svedberg-Yen: Oh, it's quite different from a book actually, because it's inherently a very visual medium. And so you really have to think about it more as writing a screenplay, almost, rather than writing a book. Writing a book, I think, a lot of times you can really delve into what the character is thinking and feeling, you can describe things using a combination of senses, you can describe things in a particular way that you can't necessarily do in a strictly audio visual medium. But at the same time, you have other tools and other elements that are at your disposal in audio visual format. So it's shifting and making use of each tool that is specific to that medium.

And I think what's really cool about games is it's interactive. And so you can really bring the player along on the journey and place control in their hands. There's a couple elements there. One is through the combat experience, because you really get to know the characters through the many hours of battle. You're spending a lot of time with them exploring, and you're kind of in their shoes, and you're really seeing and feeling things, walking alongside them, your victory is their victory, and vice-versa. Players are able to make choices and that feeling of agency allows them to bond with the characters, particularly in instances like the relationship dialogue, where they can choose some of the conversation paths. The player journeys with the characters and at the very end, they must make a choice. They have both the freedom of choice and the responsibility for the consequences that comes with that choice.

They have to, based upon all of the information they've taken in along the game, along the story, after all the things that they've experienced with the characters, and then using their own personal perspective, their own life, their own values, put that all together and figure out what do they want to do. It makes the game and the ending more personal to each player.

When I played the game and it was revealed that the action took place in a painting, I initially felt that there wasn't as much at stake for the characters in the game. Did the team consider whether this reaction was something players might feel, and what were your thoughts on that?

Svedberg-Yen: Great question, thank you. Yeah, we had a lot of discussions internally about how players would react to different reveals. Not just that one, but also Gustave's death, which felt right for the game, for the story, though it did start as a joke, but it felt like the right story arc for Gustave. But we did wonder, or I wondered at least, are people going to reject Verso? There's an implicit understanding or assumption with a main character; how will players feel when suddenly, it's yanked out from under them. It's like when Ned Stark died on Game of Thrones. So we definitely thought a lot about that.

And then with the reveal about the fact that it's in a painting. First of all, would they understand what that means? And second of all, will people feel like, wait, so none of this matters? Was this just all a dream, it meant nothing? Our hope was that people would, after having spent time with the characters, realise these characters are real, you know, to them. And in a way, it's a little bit meta in that sense, right? Because these are all pixels on a screen. It's fictional characters, none of them are real. But people were very upset when Gustave died, because Gustave feels real to them. And people were very emotional at the end of the game with the reveal about the canvas world, even though, again, it's a game. These are make believe characters. It's all a story. But people feel an attachment and a real sense of belonging with this group.

And so there is a bit of that meta relationship there that we were hoping that the players would engage with, for sure. We didn't want to upset anyone, but we definitely also wanted to challenge the player in a way to wrestle with these ideas. And I think what's really cool is that people each have their own individual reactions to all of these things. Because they do feel something. And I think that's one of the wonderful things about games and stories in general, that we can get so attached to what are really just figments of somebody else's imagination. And yet we feel they're real. And that's one of the themes and questions of the game; what's real and what's fake? And if it's real to me, then does it matter if it's fake to someone else? Because it's real to me. Can I define what's real?

We also wanted the players to walk in the expeditioner's shoes, because what Gustave's death does, what this reveal does, is it really makes you feel like the expeditioners, the Lumièrans, because for the expeditioners, death is very real, you know? And we can talk about how like, oh, well, you know, there's plot armour, they'll never kill this person because they're the main character. But in this world, for the expeditions, people die. When one falls, we continue. When, not if. And so what Gustave's death does is help the player realise, oh shit, this is real. People can die. You can't take that for granted. You can't take safety for granted. And then when you get to the act three reveal, you're in that same situation as Lune and Sciel.

It's just like, What? My whole life was just somebody else's therapy session? My whole life, everything I've been fighting for, all of that in the grand scheme of things, did that mean nothing? It helps the player feel the same as the Lumièrans. But also, in a way, it's also a reflection of our world. A lot of times, our lives, our conflicts, the things that consume our everyday thoughts, our individual journeys, in the grand scheme of things, it's just a tiny grain of sand, but they matter. Even if in the grand scheme of things, it's a blip. Even in the grand scheme of things, we're just one second on this massive cosmic timeline. We matter, right? Our lives matter and what we experience matters. And that's what we really hoped people would get from it.

So, was the team on board with all these ideas that you had for the game? Or was it like, 'Oh, can we really do this'?

Svedberg-Yen: On these controversial things, we were all on board from the very beginning. Guillaume and I came up with the overall structure and plot points from the very beginning, before the rest of the team even joined. I think I was maybe the third person to join the team? The studio didn't exist when I joined. And as each person joined, I would do a narrative onboarding session with them and I would talk them through the story and everybody was mind-blown. So that was also really nice, after walking everybody through and seeing their reactions and everybody was just like, whoa, this is cool, what the hell!

But how's your life during this creative process? Do you like hiking, walk the dog, or just - I don't know - do dishes or anything, while thinking about the campaign and the dialogue?

Svedberg-Yen: Exactly. I'm brushing my teeth. I'm thinking about it. I'm watering my plants. I'm thinking about it. Funnily enough, for instance, I was growing hydroponic tomatoes in our bathroom. And while I was doing it, I was like, oh, this could be a great plot point. I was writing Gustave and Sciel's backstory at the time. So I'm like, oh, let's make Sciel a farmer. Yeah. And they have... They have hydroponics. That's why it's Aquafarm 3. It's because I was growing hydroponic tomatoes in my bathroom. That's why Sciel is a farmer. And that's why she and Gustave met each other on an Aquafarm project because I knew Gustave was going to be an engineer. And then from there I was like, oh, maybe they had another friend and that was Gustave's love interest and that could be Sophie. Sophie actually wasn't originally in the game or story outline. She wasn't in act one, she wasn't in the Gommage scene. It was just going to be Gustave with his apprentices. But then while I was working on the backstories, I thought, oh Sophie might be a cool character to meet, she could represent a different perspective in Lumière... Oh, and maybe we can kill her! And now you will see the heartbreak of the Gommage.

What's the most interesting or cringeworthy fan produced things you've seen so far?

Svedberg-Yen: I don't know about cringy, so far everything I've seen has been really nice. I've been super impressed by everyone's creativity, and oh my gosh. Okay. So, first of all, the fan made plushies are so cute. I want them all! Some people made amazing figurines, like Monoco, and Maelle, and Verso statues, statues of all the characters. I was impressed. They're so detailed and high quality. I love all the cute fan art, like the little chibi versions of all the characters. It's so cute. Some people have amazing cosplays with incredible attention to detail, like the quilting that they did on the jackets, the tattoos, and just all the small details, it's just amazing.

There's also the really funny ones, like there was a group of cosplayers who dressed up as Expedition 60 - the Naked Expedition. We don't even have a visual for them in the game, right? It's just a journal. But they came up with an amazing cosplay. They sent us the photos, it was A+. The creativity is just off the charts. So yeah, there's been some amazing art.

And I think some people have felt inspired to write their own stories, both Expedition and non-Expedition stories. I think it's amazing that people are drawn to create. That's a huge compliment to know that people feel inspired by our game. I've got a lot of really wonderful messages from aspiring writers who told me that they've always wanted to write, or writers who were feeling blocked for a while, or feeling discouraged. But after playing the game and engaging with the story, they feel excited again. They feel vibrant, and they feel ideas returning to them, and they're inspired to write again. And I'm like, wow, that's crazy. That's incredible.

You mentioned these tomatoes here. Do you have any more secrets, research, or sources of inspiration that you've used in the creation of Clair Obscur?

Svedberg-Yen: Oh, yeah. So for instance, for a while, I had a plant there that had a little spider in it, and I named the spider Maurice. At that point, I was writing a scene for Esquie. And I was like, oh, he should have an arch nemesis. And I'm like, what is the most French name we can find? I immediately thought of François, who's our COO and lead producer. I'm going to name Esquie's frenemy François! And then later, I asked (the real) Francois, are you OK if I name the big turtle after you? He's like, yeah, sure. It's a fun character, right? And I'm like, yeah, yeah, yeah, he'll be super fun!

So I was thinking, great, we've got François and Maurice, because they sound like very French names. And Maurice originally came from my little spider intruder. Maurice was going to be Esquie's pet rock, but Esquie calls him Morrie because it gives him extra movement. And then François would be quite indignant - call him by his proper name, Maurice! And that was one of the initial ideas for the whole pet rock situation. Later on, we skipped Morrie because we already have movement enabled, so we go straight to Florrie, who lets you float and swim. But yeah, that's where the stones and their skills came from. There was Morrie, Florrie, Soarrie who lets you soar, then later on Dorrie and Urrie.

My dog Trunks was also a source of inspiration! That's the inspiration for Monoco's haircut, the relationship dialogue where Verso is like, let me cut your hair, you look like a mop. It's because at that time, Trunks' hair was quite overgrown and he looked like a walking mop. That's what we say to him all the time, you look like a mop! It's time for a haircut! There's a lot of these kinds of things sprinkled throughout.

Of all those characters you created for the game, do you have a personal favourite?

Svedberg-Yen: Oh, that's so hard. I love all of them. It's like asking about your favourite child. No, I don't really have a favourite because each of them have something cool and interesting about them that makes them fun to write or fun to explore. I know as soon as I say one, I'll be like, oh, but this one too, but that one too, because they all have something unique to them. My relationship to each character is unique. So it's really hard to say a favourite.

Did you have a hard time coming up with all these previous expeditions on the backstory?

Svedberg-Yen: No, actually, we came up with even more than those! We rearranged some of them and then ultimately cut a bunch of them. But Guillaume and I came up with them together. So we both did a pass going through and just adding random fun ideas. Some of them are specifically story related and some were kind of laying seeds for other things. Others were just like whatever random thing we thought of that might be funny. Like Expedition 60 was an inside joke between Guillaume and Alan, our character artist. And then some of them were for story reasons, like the climbing expedition for the handholds, and for the grapples. Or Lune's parents' expedition.

And then we had some that were meant to express different sentiments that people would have. For instance, the one who decided that they were going to start their own new Lumière, their own city because dissidents were "encouraged" to join the expeditions to get them out. Or other expeditions, it was a commentary that people did not agree with what Lumière was doing. There was one expedition that commandeered all the skyships and went rogue, things like that.

And for most of those, we hid a lot of our team members in them, they're scattered throughout the game. Some of them visually, but most of them are not, I don't think we had enough time to put everybody's face in. But their names are scattered throughout, as gestrals, Lumièrans, members of Expedition 33, and expeditioners in past journal entries.

Maybe it's a personal question, and if so, I beg for your forgiveness, but considering the huge amount of loss in this game, it just keeps coming at you. Have you gained some experience on a personal level for all of this?

Svedberg-Yen: Yes, I channelled a lot of my personal experiences with loss. For me, there are many different types of loss. There's the loss of people in your life, the traditional forms of loss. I lost my grandfather when I was younger, when I was in college. And that experience was very significant to me. And so some of the feelings, the emotions, especially when Maelle said to Verso, I don't need your condolences, people try to say all of these things. That was directly from my experience when I lost my grandfather.

There are also other forms of loss. Loss of friendships, everyone's still alive, you're still alive, you still wish each other well, but you know the friendship like... weakens over time, you know, you lose touch or you've both grown into different people who no longer relate to each other in the same way.

There's also lost of parts of yourself, both physical or mental, or parts of your identity. As I get older, there are parts of my sense of self that are gone now, things that you believed about yourself that you might not anymore, you are confronted with some things that maybe are no longer true. You might grieve certain parts or periods of your life and the relationships you had at that time with yourself, with your friends, with your family. Or even with your community. Your understanding of society, of our world, of humanity and the best and worst of people. A grief for the history we have endured together.

I have gone through quite a lot of ups and downs in my life, as most people have. I've really wrestled a lot with different ideas of sense of self. Trying to understand, why do I believe the things that I believe? Why do I feel the way I feel? Do I actually believe them or was I just raised to believe them? And a lot of feelings of questions around my identity. As I grow and learn, there's beauty in that, but there's also grief as my understanding deepens.

I'm Chinese-American. I am not fully American by American standards. To most Americans, I will always be Asian. And yet in China, I'm not one of them. I'm not native Chinese. I am an overseas Chinese. I will never be one of them. So I straddle multiple worlds. And now I live in northern Sweden. I also used to live in Australia and Hong Kong and various places. I've never truly belonged anywhere. And so that's also where Maelle's sense of not belonging draws from. I've never really felt like I've had a home, really, and never really felt like I knew who my people were. Not until I met my husband. He's my sense of home now. But before I met him, I often felt adrift and alone, a little weirdo in my own weird little world.

I drew a lot on my 20s and my university years for Lune's story, that's why she's more of an academic, because I was in university and grad school. That feeling of imposter syndrome, that weight of responsibility that you have to fulfill the expectations of others, the pressure to perform and deliver, that came from that period of my life when I was studying and later when I was working in finance.

With Sciel also, she kind of reflects a lot of the journey that I had in my 30s, coming to terms with major life choices, finding my own form of peace. And how would I feel if I lost my husband. And for Sciel and for Sophie, for instance, the discussion of children. Not to get too overly personal here, but we have often discussed whether we want to have children, and we're conflicted. Part of us want to, part of us don't. And for me, part of it was I felt that the world is in a not-so-great state previously, and I did not want to raise my kids in the areas where I was living. Actually, now in Östersund in Sweden, I feel like Östersund is a nice place. If I was younger, I would probably make a different choice now, raising kids here I think would be safe and comfortable. But in the US and other places, I didn't feel great about it.

Sophie has a line where she says she loves her children so much, the best thing she can do for them is to not have them. That's lifted from my own life, actually, because that's how I felt for a while. And there is a unique kind of grief there as well, where you're grieving something you never had. But it's the idea of something, and the possibility, the potential. Knowing that I will never get to hug my children or tell them I love them is its own form of grief. And it feels weird sometimes saying that because, you know, they don't exist. How can you grieve people you've never met?

But it is something that I think is not unique to me. I think a lot of people also feel that. So yeah, there are many different forms of grief. And each one of these characters does represent a very real part of my life. For instance, with Renoir and Aline, that comes a lot from my relationship with my mom. Some of Renoir's lines are straight from my mom. I understand the concern she has as a parent. I can see her point of view. But at the same time, I have my own point of view, and I have to live my life and make my own choices. So there's a grief there, too, about disappointing your parents, about having conflict with your parents, where you have to... you don't want to break their heart, but you know you are doing it. And neither party wants to break each other's hearts. But it happens.

After having such a huge success, I mean, you sold multiple millions of this game, where is the studio now? Is there a lot of optimism going forward?

Svedberg-Yen: The team are very excited. The focus right now is on the existing game, we've got a lot of player feedback on things that they would like to see improved, things that they would like to see added. We're working hard on a lot of those features right now. I'm also the voice and localisation producer, so I'm working on additional languages for the game, because we would really like to bring the game to more people around the world. Localisation is quite an endeavour though, it's a lot of work, and it's an art not a science, and it's incredibly important because so many of our players experience the game in a language other than English.

All of this will be in our upcoming free Thank You update, which we hope the players will enjoy! We'll have a bit of new content, new bosses, a new playable environment, new outfits. It's our way of showing our appreciation to the players for their incredible support and enthusiasm.

May I just ask you, when, in 10 years from now, when people look back on Clair Obscur, what do you think, or what do you hope they will remember most from the adventure?

Svedberg-Yen: Oh, that's a great question. 10 years from now. I hope they will remember the feeling they had when they were playing it, and that they will remember an impact, remember an emotion. Whether it's the exhilaration of battle or the feeling of listening to the music and grooving to it, whether it's the emotions from the story, if it resonated with them for personal reasons or simply because they love the characters. I hope they remember that feeling.

I get a lot of messages from players who tell me that they're lifelong gamers, that they've loved games like Final Fantasy, and they still remember that feeling they had when they played it for the first time. They have that nostalgia because it made such a huge impact on them.

It would be amazing, amazing, if 10 years from now there's a new generation of gamers who feel that way about our game. That they remember the feelings they had. They remember where they were when they played it. They remember that first thrill.