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thatgamecompany - Jenova Chen Interview

As part of Gamereactor's role as a media partner for Gamelab, we've been able to talk to a number of notable developers about their work, and in this interview we talk with thatgamecompany's Jenova Chen.

Audio transcription

"Gamelab 2020 live is now over, but we are lucky and thankful to have some of the speakers with us during this extra time after the show, of course under the current circumstances due to COVID-19.
Thank you so much for joining us, Jenova from thatgamecompany."

"Thank you for having me here.
I think you took part in precisely the panel which was about COVID-19 and how studios worked during this time, but you guys had these special initiatives with the Sky game that works for charity, and you had this different content, so that's one very special way of approaching this whole situation."

"What can you tell us about what you guys did during this time?
Sky is a game where the core of the gameplay and the community is about giving and generosity, and a lot of the games level up from gifting each other.
So when Earth Day was coming in April, we felt like we wanted to do something to help the Earth, and it just makes sense to have all of us work together to plant some real trees."

"So we started our first charity event, which is if you want to participate, we have a little green cape with a little sprout on it.
If you have the sprout cape, we will plant a real tree, and that became very popular.
We ended up having 42,000 trees planted, and that was kind of originally the plan.
But during that period, COVID broke out, and all the players were like, hey, why are you doing this for the trees? We've got to do something about COVID."

"And so we didn't plan for anything, but the players and also the employees from the company were saying, we can't be tone deaf, we have to do something for the real world.
It was the real event, right?
So we rushed out a simple flower, which you can wear on your hat."

"If you donate it during the period of COVID drive, which we have a $20 purchase for just regular currencies, but if you do that with COVID, we'll give you a little white flower.
And we were surprised that by the end of the drive, we have raised over a million dollars to donate to COVID.
We decided to donate to Doctors Without Borders, because I think the real help is for the doctors who have been helping, and going to different countries to help the poor."

"So yeah, we've signed the contract, and now that the drive is over, I think all of us, the developers and the players in the community are pretty proud that with a small game like Sky, we could make a seven-figure drive.
So yeah, that's just really amazing."

"I think just the generosity from our players and how much everybody cared about this global pandemic really is impressive to me.
Yeah, of course. That's a beautiful gesture.
Talking about another game, Journey, of course, released on Epic Games Store long ago.
It's been there for a while."

"What did it mean for the studio, not just in terms of business, but also opening up this beautiful adventure to thousands or even millions of new players?
Yeah, it's kind of an interesting timing.
When COVID broke out, Sony also made Journey free to play."

"Exactly.
So yeah, there's a lot more people find out about the game.
We haven't been receiving this many fan letters lately.
It's just like Sony just released it for free on PlayStation."

"And then after a long wait from Epic Store, it's also available on Steam now.
So yeah, I'm just glad that the game was finally able to leave just one platform on PlayStation and make it available for more players.
Yeah, there's a lot of scarves around to find.
Talking about platforms and releases, of course, Sky, if I'm correct, Sky is out on Switch and mobile."

"And Journey, as you mentioned, is on PC via Steam and Epic Games Store and on PlayStation.
Can we expect any of these games to be soon available in new platforms?
Actually, Sky is not on Switch yet.
We just announced we're going to port."

"It's only on mobile right now.
We surpassed, I think, over 20 million already in terms of player installs.
And yeah, so Switch is actually the first console that's ever going to come out.
And yeah, we do have a plan to bring it to more platforms, PC and other consoles in the future."

"That first Sky, but also for Journey or not?
Journey is pretty much done, I think.
Journey is on PlayStation, on iOS, on PC now.
We can't really go to direct competitors with PlayStation."

"But, you know, Sony is OK with the PC and mobile.
They are more OK even now with more and more Sony titles releasing on PC.
You guys have this trademark style, this very relaxing but also reflective games in a very contemplative way.
Would you say that that is the spirit of that game company?
We can expect you to stick to this style with future games?
I mean, after making four games, I think that's pretty obvious that I have a preference."

"But, you know, in terms of the type of game we make, I think one thing is in common that we like to push new grounds.
You know, we want to try something different and people have never done it before.
I would say Journey is the first social, emotional game I think I was focusing on.
And then with Sky, this is the first time we have MMO where people actually could chat with each other."

"But it's actually a wholesome place to chat.
Most of the time, if you have online chat, it's just really, really scary.
And yeah, for me, I was trying to do something where a parent can play with their kids together in the game.
And for Sky right now, we have a lot of moms playing with their daughters."

"And I think that's just like, you know, anytime you push the new grounds, you're going to bring new type of players into the industry.
I guess into the market, because a lot of our Sky players said this is the first game they've ever played.
And for me, as someone who loves games and wanted to see games loved by more people, that's what we like to do."

"We want to bring more people into playing games, but a medium.
You mentioned how you connect players with your games.
So in terms of game design, not just art or other aspects, but how does a game designer create this as the main core pillar of the game, this human connection?
How do you guys design this to be a timeless experience?
You got to start with that, right?
And then every decision you make, you make it for the ultimate goal."

"Because, you know, we're making a mobile game right now.
If you want to make a game that makes money, there's a lot of other ways you can design a game.
But we took to heart of our mission, right?
And then there's many things you can't do."

"Like free to play games has all kinds of bad practices.
You know, there's like gotcha, you know, I think a lot of people consider that as a pseudo gambling.
There are, you know, like pitching people against each other, you know, like, you know, jealousy or competition.
I mean, when we think about making a game, we think about how can we earn respect from the society?
If they play this game, would they love this game as a medium?
And with that as a goal, many of the things you just don't feel comfortable to do, right?
And I think a lot of time I think about Pixar and Disney because their work managed to earn respect from us."

"And would Disney ever do that? Pitching two families against each other in a game, in a park to drive money?
Like, oh, that family has taller hats. Do you want to buy a taller hat?
It just feels wrong.
And so we spent a very long time trying to find what is the right combination of, you know, content versus like business models, right?
Like if it's free, how and when does people pay for your game?
And when they pay, do they feel good about themselves?
Do they feel somewhat shady, you know?
And so I never expected that I have to deal with business models because I thought I was a game director."

"I focus on the game experience.
But when it becomes a mobile game, you know, all these things like, you know, like the way you connect the game, the way you pay are also part of the experience that now you are in control of changing.
So just to resist from taking what is out there and remember your core is to me the most challenging part."

"Yeah, that's a bit tricky.
With Sky, this is a closing one.
With Sky, of course, yet to release on the Nintendo Switch, as you said, what else can we expect next from that game company?
What can fans look forward to?
We have a new game that we are working on, but it's going to take a while."

"And Sky is a live operation game.
We've been live for a year and we have plans for another two more years.
So there's a lot of content we have to build.
Yeah, it's a live operation."

"So expect to see a lot more coming to the world of Sky.
Looking forward to that then.
Thank you so much for your time, Genova.
Stay safe and healthy."

"Stay safe and healthy.
Thank you."

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