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We chat with Ghost Ship Games' Head of Publishing and Marketing Alex Skronski about the Deep Rock Galactic: Survivor Esports competition sweeping the stage at Copenhagen Games Week.
"Firstly, Alex, thank you so much for taking the time to meet with me today.
Likewise.
Hope you're well.
So I was just going to ask maybe for a little thing to get started for people who might not be aware of the Invitational, the greatest esports event I believe ever."
"I don't think we fact check on that, but I think I can firmly say that that is at least in my opinion true.
What's the story behind this?
Why did it go from something that you guys were doing, a sort of satirical in-joke, into a real event that has now garnered a lot of attention since it first debuted?
It's our second time around, so how did it become so great?
How did it get so great?
Well, I guess from our perspective, the game called to us and we answered."
"To be completely honest, I think it's been a lot of creative yes-and-things from everybody involved that has built up what started as a, hey, what if we did an esports event?
Into, oh, wow, this is engaging.
Oh, wow, this is fun."
"Oh, wow, what if we do this?
What if we do this?
And I think it's down to everybody involved, both everybody here at Ghost Ship and Swipe Right and Funday, and also the contestants that have each been part of adding all the bricks so we could build a huge, glorious house that houses this event together."
"So it's been this creative yes-and-thing process that has resulted in, for what we know, the greatest esports event of all time.
The event initially started with a conversation with Martin, who's in the background of this call.
We were spitballing ideas and one of them was, oh, what if we did an esports thing?
And I thought of that and went, okay, I'll take that to my team."
"How can I sell it?
How can I show some potential here to the team?
And I thought, do I need to put it all into a PowerPoint presentation?
Do I need to build a whole pitch?
I said, okay, I'm just going to see how they react."
"I said, guys, guys, guys, hear me out, hear me out.
Eproc, Electric Survivor, esports.
And it didn't get further.
They all just ran with it and brought each of their unique capabilities and perspectives to it."
"And it just rolled from there.
So now we're both very proud and also very humbled by how great this thing has become.
I think, as you say, it's your second time around.
Is there sort of an element of comfort now?
I imagine there was a lot of nerves maybe going into it, but I guess because it's getting bigger as well, is there sort of a pressure to, okay, we've made this real now and we've made it good."
"How do we keep making it good and great and so on and so on?
So I think for this time around, we did ask ourselves, how can we challenge ourselves?
We, of course, wanted to do it again because, sure, it may have started as a joke.
But to be completely honest, when we tried it out ourselves at first, we did a small test going, is there more to the joke here?
Where I sat and played against Jacob from our team and Aaron and Mark just did a test commentary in the background, just here at the office, just over Discord."
"And within two minutes, we could feel like, okay, it's not just a joke.
It's on. I'm locked in.
I got the adrenaline pumping.
Yeah."
"It's not just a two-hour joke.
This is exciting and this is tense and interesting.
And for this time around, we did ask ourselves, how can we challenge ourselves?
Because for the first Invitational we did, it was also a bit of a challenge to ourselves."
"Can we do this both at the conceptual level?
Can we put together a fun and engaging esports Invitational competition for Deep Rock Galactic Survivor, but also just on the production level?
Can we handle live commentary?
Can we do a multi-camera setup?
Can we do a big D-mix getting eight content creators around the world to feed their streams into our servers so we can do the whole production?
Behind the scenes, it's pretty much us together with two freelancers that are putting all of this production together."
"And it was very formative for us because we learned a lot in terms of live production, in terms of all of the nitty-gritty things that are required to do a live show of this type.
And for the second event we're doing here on Thursday, we did ask ourselves, what can we do more?
And we got the opportunity to host the event, Della Center, which then brought an interesting aspect to it."
"Now it's not just the VIP area up here on the fifth floor, which is 10 meters to my left where I'm sitting now.
It's an actual venue with a big screen, with space for a large live audience.
And that's an interesting challenge for us.
And also, since then, the game is also in 1.0."
"So we also wanted to have an invitation where we included the aspects of the game that were added since 1.0.
That could add a lot to the excitement of the event because the initial idea of eSports for Deep Rock Galactic Survivor came when we introduced mutators to Survivor in update 4.
And with 1.0, we introduced gear."
"So gear is going to be one aspect of the semi-final and finals.
It was here in the quarterfinals last week as well, where gear is then another factor that we bring into the competition.
Cool, cool.
Something that you touched upon there I think is really interesting is, how does Deep Rock Galactic Survivor make itself a really engaging eSports game?
Because it might not be..."
"When you think about the traditional eSports games, a lot of people think MOBAs or fighting games or things like that.
But I think in recent years, we've seen that preconception get blown out of the water.
And I think Deep Rock Galactic Survivor is, in a way, a great example of that.
So I just wondered what you think makes the game really exciting to watch in that eSports capacity."
"I think the thing that excites me the most when I watch the matches is that it's not a boxing or wrestling match where it's two people going head-to-head.
It's a race.
It's somebody pushing themselves to their utmost limit, knowing that somebody else is right next to them.
They can't afford to lose focus on how they're pushing themselves as well as they can."
"But they know they're head-to-head with somebody else.
And I think that's the tension.
That's when we brought these matches side-by-side, instead of having a head-to-head, two people on the same level.
We brought them side-by-side, and our contestants hear the commentary live."
"They're following along with the live commentary.
So they get feedback on how well they're doing in the contestants' eyes and how well the competitors are doing.
And following that along is what excites me the most.
Finding that deep motivation, that deep energy in the moment, just locking in and pushing themselves as hard as they can."
"It's really, really exciting.
It almost offers its own storytelling within the eSports itself.
You get a narrative that develops.
As you say, the commentators have to cover live and create themselves, but it's also something that the players will see."
"Yeah, very much.
And I think it created a lot of exciting moments the last time we did it.
And the nature of the game is that there's a lot of random elements to it.
They play the same seed head-to-head, but there are a lot of random elements during the run that make it very unpredictable to both the audience and also to us."
"We can't control all the elements in terms of difficulty and what's going to happen throughout the run.
Those situations, that storytelling happening organically, is also what attracted us to this format.
There's something magical when it happens live.
It's not pre-recorded, put together, a collection of the best moments."
"It is live.
Whatever happens, it happens.
We're all there to witness those stories unfold.
I think it's really, really exciting, especially with the level of competitors that you guys have."
"This one has been more invitational, I believe.
It's been a lot more open.
But is there a sense that you guys go in with specific types of competitors in mind that you think you would want to see on the main stage in that livestream?
Or do you ever get a chance where players necessarily surprise you with how they've played the game and how they've taken on the challenge of playing it in this fast-paced environment?
Sorry, my connection was a little bit bad."
"So, could you repeat the question?
Yeah, sure.
Basically, with the contestants, is there ever anything that surprises you in the way that they play Deep Rock Galactic Survivor and the way that they take it on in that different heightened environment as they lock in, as you said?
Yeah, I think what really surprised us but impressed us is the level of skill."
"You can actually put a lot of skill into this game because there's both the micro aspect to it, being able to dodge the enemies, being able to know the distance of the exploders and being able to carve paths to easily escape swarms.
And there's the meta choices, both before the match and during the match."
"And I think we're maybe not as surprised as we're impressed.
We know that the contestants that we invite usually know the game very well.
Some of them have created hundreds of videos of survivors showing the journey and clearly demonstrating that they are very competent at the game and also that the game can handle that level of competence."
"As you mentioned before, we've said it a couple of times now, this one's getting bigger, this one's getting better.
The Copenhagen Game Week is a big part of that.
How does it feel to be taking on that stage?
What made me laugh was in the email."
"It was mentioned as the biggest sporting event since the Super Bowl, which I just thought was very funny considering we just had that last night.
It's a great window to put that in."
"How does it feel to launch on that stage?
I think it feels very exciting for us.
Because it's something we've wanted to do since 1.0, released last September for Survivor."
"When this opportunity came up, we've been excitedly anticipating this coming up.
And it's something that at the production level, and I also think in the audience and the community, just brings people together."
"There's a real sense for productions like these, for everybody just coming together and wanting it to be the best it can be.
And I think that we also see that happening in the community.
Everybody wants to see these four contestants do the absolute best they can."
"Something that I really like about Deep Rock Galactic is the community base, as you've touched on there.
Do you think that, from a general marketing perspective, I guess as well as this event specifically, do you think that gives you guys a bit of an edge in terms of having this really, really large platform of talkative users to speak with and communicate with and support you through that element?
I hesitate to call it an edge, because I don't feel it's a resource, I feel it's a dialogue."
"And I honestly feel that because Deep Rock Galactic is built around the community.
And so many of the players who love Deep Rock Galactic also love Survivor for what it is, for its own thing, for the greatness that is, for the great things that Survivor does."
"And we spend so much of our effort, time and energy in marketing, engaging with the community, making things we think the community will like.
And also stepping, also letting the community be part of that discourse and conversation."
"We spend most of our marketing efforts writing Steam blog posts and making shorts and streaming and showing what's coming up.
And really, we call it elbow grease marketing.
Spending time and energy on showing and telling what it is we're doing to the community and listening to the community and having that dialogue and bringing what's important to the community with us into the development and the production of our games and also into what we do in terms of marketing."
"That's why I don't think it necessarily gives us an edge.
I think that dialogue makes it possible for us to do something like this.
Because we spend, I think..."
"Everybody in marketing, I would say, most of the studio still spends a lot of their time engaging with people in the community on Discord, on Reddit, on Steam."
"And something like this, I think, also comes from a dialogue with the community.
I consider that...
Yeah, it's very much a..."
"Because I think this opportunity is something we can do because of that dialogue.
In that sense, is there anything that you find unique within Deep Rock Galactic Survivor as well as the OG game that you think has allowed that community dialogue to take place?
Anything that stands out as something that has necessitated that back and forth?
Yeah."
"I think the whole concept of co-op and community has been with Deep Rock from the start and with Ghost Ship from the start.
It's very much core of what we do and how we work."
"All the way back to Deep Rock, co-op was front and center.
We introduced mechanics to the game that didn't have a design function in terms of Rock and Stone, for example."
"It doesn't give you a boost.
It doesn't give you a gameplay benefit.
But it allows me to interact with other people in the game.
And I think so much of the game, so much of how we make the game, we really try to..."
"We really focus on how do people interact with each other in the game.
Down to all the voice lines and the laser pointer and a lot of the choices of how we build the game."
"I think a lot of that has transitioned to Survivor, even though it's not a co-op game.
I think the way that the game has a dialogue with you, the way the game responds to what you're doing, the voice lines, the way the character reacts, the way the whole flow of the game lets you have a better dialogue with the game."
"I think that's both you being able to have good feedback from the game and also being able to interact with the people that you play with is so front and center to Deep Rock and GoShip."
"I'd like to, if you don't mind, switch up a little bit now and talk about that lovely belt that is directly in front of you.
I can see down there.
Is there a..."
"Now, a lot of esports events, they go for things like trophies, but I have to say, as an old-school wrestling fan, the idea of a wrestling-style belt is incredible to me.
Is there a story behind the creation of the belt?
How did you decide on the belt?
Is there just the one?
How treasured should it be?
Well, this one says 2026."
"Beautiful.
So there's another one.
There's more than one now.
So the honest answer is Aaron on the team is a big wrestling fan."
"He's also an announcer for a pro-wrestling league here in Denmark.
So that was one of the examples of what I said before, where everybody brings something unique and their perspective to the whole event."
"Aaron brought the concept of the wrestling belt and that part to it, along with a lot of other parts.
Mark, who's our content and video producer, he was really diving deep into the mix at that point, so the whole multi-cam setup and the side-by-side mixing, the whole video flow was something that he was very interested in at that time and wanted to do more of."
"So a lot of people from the team brought their unique perspective and their skill set to this and created this sort of yes-and approach that formed the event into more of what it is.
I think it was the week before, where somebody wrote out what we should wear, and I immediately went T-shirts and Blazers."
"That's the classic.
That's what they do at the NFL.
I think they do at the NFL, I haven't watched in a long time.
It's more of that Super Bowl vibe, I guess."
"Yeah, so...
Yeah, it's...
That's the belt.
Yeah, that's the belt.
What a beauty it is."
"I think I've got time for maybe just one more, and I would like to ask maybe, is the plan currently for this to be an event that will consistently arrive at Copenhagen Games Week, or would you like to see Deep Rock Galactic Survivors Esports go global, have more events in the future?
Where do you guys see this as sort of future plans?
Widescale, I guess."
"I think we'll always ask ourselves, how can we make the greatest thing even greater?
Yeah.
But right now we're focused on Thursday."
"Yeah.
After that, that's for Friday.
That's for Friday to figure out.
Perfect. That's about all I've got, by the way."
"Yeah.
By the way, Aaron couldn't join, unfortunately, but if you have any questions for Aaron or somebody on the team, you're welcome to send them over and we can provide a written response."
"Thank you.
This was a lot of fun.
I'm glad that you...
you know the event.
Yeah."
"It's very cool to talk about.
Yeah. It's something as well.
As soon as Hannah emailed me about it from Swagbrite, I was like, I can't help but jump in on that."
"Yeah.
Ask about the bell and do all that stuff and get into it.
It is super-duper fun.
And as I said, the esports of Survivor and things like that are always really, really exciting to me."
"Because I've followed esports for some time and initially used to watch just the fighting games and just the MOBAs.
But the more stuff that evolves, the more it just gets really exciting and they add loads of stuff to it."
"Yeah.
I think the whole...
I also got very...
I've been very entertained by a lot of the speed runs or games done quickly."
"It's like people pushing themselves in a game, which isn't the technical competitive.
It's competitive, but it's very individually competitive.
I used to..."
"When I was young, I used to surf a lot and skateboard and stuff like that.
And that was like me pushing myself to do better and learn something new.
Yeah."
"You can do it in a competitive...
You can do it in a competitive context.
But I think when...
If I were competing with one of my friends and doing a trick in skateboarding, it's best when you're both doing really, really great."
"When you're both landing amazing tricks, you're like, oh, you're so excited for the other person.
Because you're not trying...
I mean, yeah, it's a head-to-head competition, but I don't think you're trying to take that person down."
"You're trying to push.
You're pushing yourself so hard and the person next to you is motivating you to push yourself harder.
Yeah."
"It's that two-way street of like, if you can do it, I'll try and do it better.
And then because I've tried to do it better, you try and do it better.
And then I'll try and do one more."
"Yeah.
And I think in a weird way, there's a little bit of that dialogue we have with the community.
We see them come up with so much cool stuff."
"And funny memes and cool videos and stuff like that.
Oh, that's so cool.
Oh, I have an idea. What if we did this?
Yeah."
"So I think that it's a little bit of...
It's a bit of the same feeling we have with that dialogue with the community.
Yeah."
"Thank you so much for taking the time.
Yeah. Well, thanks for having me.
I mean, I didn't want to keep you guys because I think it's just all..."
