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We've grown accustomed to seeing a lot of 3D, CGI, and even AI in modern audiovisual productions, but puppets and stop motion have always and will always be there, and that's why we loved to catch up with the co-founder of Manchester-based, 39-year-old Mackinnon & Saunders animation studio, at the SDCCM.
"Hi friends, I'm at the San Diego Comic Con in Malaga and we've been talking Corpse Bride with the guys over at Grangel Studio, but you know, it couldn't happen without the puppets and the figures that they built at Mackinnon & Saunders, so thank you so much for joining us. Ian, you're 50% of the whole project, of the whole thing."
"50% of Mackinnon & Saunders, yeah. Peter Saunders and I have been working together for 39 years, almost as old as the Grangel Studio. So next year we'll be talking 40th anniversary?
40th anniversary, yeah. We specialize in stop motion animation. Peter and I started off as puppet makers and along the way we've developed our own TV series and we've done commercials and feature films and lots of things for children's television and we produce a lot of the animation as well."
"And I love, you know, this story of being focused on stop motion but then, you know, evolving or transcending into different types of modern animation.
Yeah, well, we worked on Mars Attacks originally with Tim Burton, I know that was 30 years ago, and that was originally intended to be stop motion and it ended up becoming a CG movie."
"I didn't know that! But we designed it as stop motion and we created the puppets for it.
But, you know, 30 years ago people thought that stop motion would disappear and I know that, and I think that as years have gone by, people now appreciate, well, 2D animation is still really important, hand-drawn animation is so important, you know, and 3D CGI and stop motion can all live happily together."
"A lot of the projects we do now are mixed with live action and animation together, so we just choose the right medium for the right project.
Yes, and of course it's going to live forever, I totally agree, everything that's going to be dead, but it's going to be there forever."
"But how did your technique, specifically, with stop motion evolve through these 39 years?
Of course you're still doing stop motion, but are you doing it quite differently now?
I think because we're always very curious as to how to develop the art of stop motion, so we like to share the ideas with the team, we like to give everyone the opportunity to develop the techniques that we use, the materials we use and the way that we animate, so, we constantly want to push things a little bit further forward, and so, for instance, for Corpse Bride, we ended up designing these mechanical heads, so the animator can actually manipulate the facial expressions within the scene, so it's not a series of masks like Nightmare Before Christmas."
"No, no, no, it's just they're all hand-controlled, they put a little key into the ear of the Corpse Bride and turn it and it makes us smile and things like that.
So we wanted to, and that's been very important for a lot of the directors we work with, is to try and capture as much on set as possible, and as the years have gone by, working with people like Wes Anderson on Fantastic Mr. Fox, I know he really appreciates, as does Tim Burton and Guillermo del Toro, they really love the hand-crafted nature of what we do, and they like to celebrate the fact that you can see the fur moving on Fantastic Mr. Fox, you can see the fabric moving in the characters, and it's just a way of enhancing the handmade look, we try and give it as much elegance and as much beauty as we can, but we don't want to hide the fact that it is a handmade craft."
"And I think now, in a world of AI and computer technology, people want to see the finger marks of the artist on the work, so, we're really pleased because it means that we can still carry on developing and doing the work that we do.
Yes, and you've mentioned Burton, and of course it's important, you've mentioned Mars Attacks, you've mentioned Corpse Bride, but there is also Beetlejuice, Beetlejuice, and very recently, I haven't even watched this episode, sorry about this, Wednesday Season 2, it literally starts with you."
"What can you tell me about this little short here?
Well, we worked with of the two writers, Al(fred) Gough and Miles Millar, and the director Tim Burton on Beetlejuice, Beetlejuice, and I think when Al and Miles were writing the scripts for Season 2, Wednesday, there was a flashback scene that they thought, actually, maybe we could introduce this, rather than just having a tale told around the fireplace, late one night, how about we do this using stop motion animation, and Tim Burton loved the idea, so we created a little short, black and white, two minute sort of piece that sits within the episode, and I know Tim suggested that we feel like we should be going back to school, we're going back to Nevermore Academy, and we're making this as a student film, so it's a way of introducing a new character into Season 2, so there's lots of little things in there, little sort of Easter eggs in there, that I think hopefully people will really enjoy, and is very much inspired by Dr. Caligari and the German Expressionists, so it fits very well with the vibe of Wednesday, and Tim was a joy, he directed the piece as well, so we produced it in our studio back in Manchester, so yeah, I hope you enjoy it when you get to see it."
"I'm extremely looking forward to it, and anything else that you would like to share about the projects you're currently working on, that you can disclose?
Can't really tell you that much about what we're working on, but we're working on a film at the moment, we're actually working on a TV series as well, which is a mix of live action and CG animation, and some model animation, I know it's a real mix, it's a show called Busnu, which is on Sky Kids, we still do lots of work for children's television, we've just done a commercial with a big US company, so you have to be adaptable, if you work in animation, no day is ever the same, so we have to be quite diverse in what we do, and then coming to Comic-Con, in Malaga, is a way of reminding ourselves what we do, and the audience out there, and the love they have for animation, so it's been fantastic to sit on some of the panels, and meet some of the people here, it's been really special."
"That's fantastic, I was going to ask you about Malaga and the Comic Con, but you already answered that, with all the things you said, with all the projects you are working on, to other 40 years."
"Thank you so much.
Thank you very much.
Enjoy the show again."
