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Entertainment and the blurred lines between live services and gamification - Artem Shein DevGAMM Interview
We couldn't talk Strikerz Inc's UFL, but we could discuss all things live service games and other products, discussing their production, trajectory, UGC and design, with product owner Artem Shein in Gdańsk.
Audio transcription
"All right we are at the DevGAMM in Gdańsk and I'm here joined by Artem and I sort of kidnapped you, right before your panel, it's in about 10 minutes so we can't be talking for longer but you know I think your angle is very interesting I know we cannot talk sadly we cannot talk UFL and you're a product owner for UFL but we will talk with the guys over at Strikerz Inc in the future because we are very much into football you're not talking about football here you're talking about you know live service and how what it has in common with games that are live service with other services that are like that so what can you tell me about like the main bullet point here so the main bullet points like when we talk about the live service products I don't mean the only games and when we talk about the users play time we need to think like broader and to understand that nowadays people entertain themselves with the not only with games but with the fast content and with a lot of different products like food deliveries e-commerce products yeah because you know that usually you can find yourself just scrolling up the some restaurants or maybe some products that you want to buy like sneakers or something and the thing is that you actually entertain yourself with that yeah you don't need to buy something you just want to see look the content and so when we talk about the play time of the users play time we need to think that we try to steal not their play time but their spare time when they want to you know to found themselves how somehow entertained okay yes so that is why this is a different angle on the live services itself and the focus is that we need to see it like a big picture of entertainment yeah so so even though what you're gonna be sharing here is that it's a shared space yeah how would you say is it is it is transforming gaming so in the past few years you know there's some controversy as well some publishers tried to go live service but they tried the wrong way some others are saying now a we will remain traditional we remain like you know full release and that's it so how do you think is shaping up gaming as a play actually when we talk about the live service products it's not too much different from the other products because if we just look through for example retail store like IKEA or something we can find a lot of similarities between the live service game and the care because you know that we have on boarding like to the game yeah and they have this too I mean they have the map they have a cafeteria to make you just feel a little bit happier yeah you know and to feel don't feel hunger before the you know the store we have you know this first time with impression like in the games we need to counts the economics at the same time that the user will be found will found himself rewarded for this game all right and the same stuff they have in IKEA as well you know they have this exhibition hall like yes they just try to advertise you how the things can be you know managed yeah yeah yeah and before you dive into the store they also have this you know this kind of small room with discounted products it's like a first offer like in the games as well yeah so it's a lot of similarities between this kind of products and the thing is that we use a lot of stuff that was invented before the games video games I mean and live service games that is why why should we just you know limit ourselves because there are a lot of stuff just we can use from e-commerce or from for example social platforms because we do have some friends requests we do have some great clubs yep yeah we do have some likes or reactions for the match replays but we don't have a lot of stuff that we have in social platforms like for example feeds yeah or maybe we don't have some kind of a space where we can just start a podcast or something and we can just take these features and try to implement in games and make people just use it like in like their usual experience because they usually experience it in the other apps when they want to entertain themselves so yeah so the the thing is that we need to look through the entertainment industry itself that is why yeah that is why the topic raised today and before this interview you told me there are some differences between a product owner and a producer so you know many young devs or soon-to-be devs gathered here so what is the difference and also how do you think that of course live service approach changes production that's a tricky question because tricky question because the roles itself differs from company to company yeah I mean the producer role can you know involve some kind of a product management itself and and in the other way like product owner can involve the producer yes so I believe that nowadays producer strongly like focused on the production itself and try to focus the team on the things that they need to produce but the product owner product manager you can name it as you want the main I mean the main focus of these people they need to find the right segment in markets where we can solve someone's okay problem or issues it's a it's common for software development or something but in games we just need to try to find the segment that we can sell our life service game or for example when we talk about some kind of sci-fi game or something we need to particularly understand what kind of the segment of the markets we can you know so this game because there are a lot of sci-fis in the world it can be it can be Stephen King or maybe a Star Trek or yeah there are a lot of titles so the focus of the product manager is try to understand which particular segment of markets your product will fit so and the producer role itself it's like just to try to help yeah the studio more inwards than outwards right that's right right and the other question was about live game changing production and and gave that game death so yeah I believe that's nowadays as I said that we try to entertain ourselves with the fast content so that is why usually users like consume the content much faster that we can produce that is why that is why studios need to you know produce it tons of content like to create a lot of events to create a lot of for example battle passes yeah to create a lot of content that they can actually sell or just offer to the users that is why I believe for the last maybe 10 years live service made the industry like more complicated because you need more people to produce the content and you need to find out the way to optimize it optimize you know the production but and I think maybe the AI will help us to do that because it's somehow it's not like something that will kill the industry or kill the roles that actually produce the content but this is a tool that can just make it faster yeah so okay closing one because you actually have to run we mentioned before how how some studios took a stance regarding live service so do you think there is a bubble do you think that bubble has been pinched already and popped I don't think that's this it's a bubble itself but when we look at the picture like where the users play time actually involves we can see that it's I don't remember it's a research from steam I believe for some kind of a statistic on user so we see nowadays that's 60% of players actually play the live service games that were released before the 2019 interesting yes so and the other part like almost about 30% they play games that were released after the 2019 and the market is so much saturated right now and it's kind of difficult to compete with each other especially in terms like shooter games or something so I believe we will find out the new ways of you know making this play like fortnight or roblox or something because this is a trend like when we need to create the platforms where the gamers can create produce design some content itself because this is actually some something that optimize our you know production possibilities yeah and also you just see help us to market it to I mean yeah to market it differently because users can design it and produce it and create levels and they are interested into selling it to their friends and to the other people so we don't need actually to do anything else just to prepare and give them the tools before creation so we don't talk NFT that's a buzzword from two three years ago it's just another tool yeah you know so anyway thank you so much for your time I thank you let's head to your panel and I hope you enjoy it I enjoyed this thank you thank you very much"
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