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Constance and The Berlin Apartment are two different games with beautiful art and mental health in common - BTF DevGAMM Interview
A metroidvania with an artistic touch and a first-person adventure with a historical twist. We learn more about BTF's upcoming games in another windy interview in Cascais.
Audio transcription
"Hi friends, we're in windy Cascais for the DevGAMM event.
This is the day two and I'm here joined by a couple of developers who I met at the elevator.
That's normally the case when an event works nicely that you guys, you meet people that are doing interesting things and that was the case with you guys and you are nominated for today's awards with Constance and at the same time I learned about The Berlin Apartment, which both look very nice artistically. I haven't played them, but they look really really nice."
"So as we're talking about elevators, which would be the elevator pitch for Constance?
Well, Constance is a 2D action platformer about a brush-wielding artist who's trying to escape her inner colorful but decaying world."
"Essentially, that's it.
2D action platformer as in Metroidvania sort of?
Yes, Metroidvania, yes, with a little bit more focus on platforming also because there's a lot of influences there from platforming games and very specific things that make the game unique such as the fact of flow, the character is an artist so she becomes paint."
"In fact, she becomes paint means that she can dive into walls and into the floor and all these things.
So there's a lot about movement and flow in the game.
So there's a an emphasis on that sort of element and then of course the story about mental health.
Let's get your elevator pitch."
"Okay, The Berlin Apartment is a first-person narrative exploration game like what relates to Peter Finch, for example, is a great example in the genre.
It's about a name-giving apartment in Berlin and it always takes place in the same apartment.
We have different episodes recording throughout the history of this apartment's existence and we play in those episodes on characters with their own little short stories across the time and you learn something about Germany's history, Berlin's history, but also about their personal stories within those histories."
"Exactly.
I found it very interesting that you guys are doing two so different games within the same studio.
The name of the studio is BTF, if I'm correct.
Why does that happen?
How does it come to be that you guys have so different genres within, I guess, the same team?
You're not a AAA studio. So how do you approach these two very different ideas?
It's actually interesting because we are BTF Games."
"We are just a small part of a bigger company, which is BTF.
They actually work on TV shows for Netflix or documentaries and fiction movies, music videos a lot.
And there was a games department before and we worked on the Berlin apartment or other project before.
And then out of the post-production department, someone of our team had an idea for a game and he was working on it in private, basically."
"And one day he went to the bosses and pitched the idea and it was actually Constance.
And our bosses were cool enough to say, hey, we give you this platform, we already have a games department there.
So why don't we develop this game in-house, right?
So it was the second team formed within the bigger BTF realm, I would say."
"And the thing I would also add is it's more about BTF's own identity.
So even though the games are different in genre, even in it's a 2D, that's a 3D game and everything, they both share the same DNA.
And that's what kind of unites our project.
That's where BTF kind of starts from."
"They all start from personal stories.
Like this isn't just random games, right?
Our game is connected to a personal story of us as developers.
Their game, the same thing."
"And so the connecting tissue is this idea of telling meaningful stories, but from a...
I wouldn't say positive, but from an approachable perspective, right?
So it's a metroidvania, there's action, there's bosses, there's all of that.
There's a colorful character, but we're talking about deep subjects, right?
It's the same thing with their game, right?
It's of course going to have dark subjects because it's Berlin, right?
In an apartment."
"But it's all seen through the eyes of someone who's renovating an apartment and telling a story to their kids, right?
And so this is the DNA and what actually connects both of our projects.
And so BTF is also this philosophy that we're not bound by genre, we're not bound by visuals.
We're bound by our creativity and this very specific shared identity."
"I would like to ask you about that personal thing.
If you can elaborate a bit more of your personal intrigue or your personal background that made you try to convey this message with these two different games.
I can speak for Constance, of course."
"Well, in the case of Constance, it firstly originated with our director, Sebastian Drews.
Essentially out of, to be direct, a panic attack.
Okay, so a personal story there.
And so there was this idea, it started all because of the whole work-life balance element."
"And he was struggling with it.
And also fulfillment of the idea if you're doing something fulfilling or not.
As part of why he went to work in games in the first place.
And everyone in the team has something like this, right?
So for instance, one thing we're making sure of it, we're not specifically talking only of panic attacks in Constance."
"We don't actually point the finger at one specific thing.
Because everyone in the team has dealt with something.
Whether that was burnout, anxiety, in my case depression, so going personal.
And all different kinds of issues."
"But they all have different and at the same time similar facets, right?
And so it's about just putting that into a character.
And then essentially expressing our experience through her, right?
Into a single person."
"It's also precisely how you write a great character, right?
You grab real stories and you make them your own.
And you put them into a single person.
Because that also makes it very dramatic."
"And also makes for good storytelling.
And then it's just about grabbing those personal experiences.
Resolving them into gameplay, which is my job as a game designer.
And how does the player also feel that?
Not only by reading something, in our case."
"But also by playing it.
But it comes from there.
It comes from pain, basically.
There's this joke this year.
I don't know if you've seen it."
"It says, you know, I already do everything with AI.
And then the other person asks with artificial intelligence.
And then you come back and say, no.
With anxiety and insomnia."
"Exactly.
You can take it.
And the funny thing is, one of the chapters of work-life balance in our game.
Has been interpreted sometimes by players."
"And we kind of leave it on purpose as a dig at AI.
Because it's about art.
And she's an artist.
So I'm not going to touch too much on that subject."
"Not to do spoilers.
But we indirectly end up touching that also.
So it's funny you brought it up.
Yeah.
So what about the apartment?
For us, it was also a very personal story."
"Because most of our development team, we all live in Berlin.
And most of the apartments in Berlin are very old apartments.
That were built 100, 120 years ago.
So our creative director, Hans Böhme."
"He was once, I don't know.
He was living in his old apartment.
And wondering.
Because he was seeing scratches on the floorboards."
"Or at the doors.
Because the doors are also very often very old still.
Wondering what happened in those.
What happened here in this apartment."
"What characters lived in this very room that I'm sitting in right now.
Over, like I said, a course of 100 years.
And this was kind of the beginning of this great idea.
Of making a story out of, a game out of those kind of stories."
"People that lived the tragedies that happened maybe here.
The amazing stories that were told.
So yeah, it's also kind of personal.
And the thing is, everyone digs it."
"Because we're all living in those kind of apartments.
So we all understand, have the same feeling.
That's the thing, right?
I think especially with a city like Berlin."
"It's a scar on the city itself.
The whole population has this scar, right?
And so The Berlin Apartment, what I think is great about your game.
Is the fact that it's expressing a thing."
"That's like almost a national thing.
Or a city thing.
It's everywhere.
It's like a mental health issue of a whole population."
"Right.
That's interesting.
And it's also like a meta.
I was just going to say that.
So we're not really entirely focusing on the history of Berlin or Germany."
"We're trying to tell like personal stories.
They have to be engaging.
So that's why it comes from a personal space.
So we are also trying to tell personal stories, characters."
"Yeah.
All right.
Closing one.
We've been talking about the message.
We've been talking about the art."
"Because you guys are nominated.
And you guys are also very special.
And as we are talking, we are seeing some gameplay of your beautiful games.
You briefly mentioned the mechanics."
"So can you extract one single mechanic that is special about your games.
For players to know what they're going to do.
And what it's slightly different to other games.
Well, I've already mentioned one of them."
"Right.
The idea of flow.
That the character can essentially become paint.
Become her own art.
Right."
"This is also very symbolic.
And really differentiates the game from other metroidvanias.
But since I already mentioned that.
Another thing I might."
"Also another mechanic I really like is our inspiration system.
All right.
A lot of games have like equipments.
Or like these charms."
"Or stuff like that.
In our games, she gets inspired by moments in the game.
And so certain moments in the game.
If she gets inspired."
"She'll grab her notebook and sketch them.
And when you go to your notebook.
Those sketches actually are like an equipment.
Essentially they give you something."
"Yes.
But the thing is you can sketch them anywhere you want.
So it becomes kind of like a mini Tetris game.
Okay.
Where you actually have to find the way to make a beautiful composition within your page."
"And that's the way how you actually get the best stats.
So we're using art as a way.
Expression is also a way to give you stats in the game.
So that the character has better stats."
"A different mechanic.
A different you know.
Suddenly your dodge damages.
Or whatever it is.
And those all different things."
"So I really love that one.
Because it's also very original.
There's a bunch of more.
But I'll leave it at that there.
Quite unique."
"Yeah.
Yeah.
I wouldn't.
I wouldn't describe.
I wouldn't define any specific."
"Like gameplay mechanic.
But the changing.
Ever-changing gameplay mechanics in our case.
Because we are in the core.
We are a narrative exploration."
"But each episode.
Not only tells different stories with different characters.
But also has like a slightly different gameplay loop.
For instance in one episode."
"You're a Jewish movie theater owner.
And you have to leave.
So you have to pack your suitcase.
So you have to.
It's kind of like a scavenger hunt type of gameplay loop."
"Where you walk around your apartment.
And you try to find meaningful items.
That you want to pack.
And then there's another episode."
"Where you're a writer.
And as you write a science fiction book or screenplay.
The apartment changes.
And it becomes like a space station."
"So there's like ever-changing.
Slightly different gameplay loops.
Which is quite unique I would say.
That's quite unique."
"And have you considered making that VR?
Yours is first person.
You know changing environments.
So perhaps it's interesting to explore that as well."
"Yeah we did talk about it.
But there's a lot of challenging.
Like regarding how to move characters around in the apartment.
Like this kind of."
"Yeah exactly.
Or you do just like teleporting.
Which is kind of clumsy.
We thought about it for a second.
But probably not."
"Not gonna happen.
There's also the fact that.
When you design for VR.
Space isn't the same as you do for a normal third.
Like a camera first person controller."
"Distances.
The scale of space needs to be different.
So adapting a game to VR is a lot more work than that.
It needs more development."
"If the game goes well though.
Maybe recording and stuff.
Speaking about which.
Are you guys both releasing in 2025?
In principle yes."
"We should be.
Yes.
We are releasing somewhere in the end of 2025.
Last trimester in principle.
2025."
"Looking forward to playing The Berlin Apartment.
And to playing Constance.
Good luck with today's awards.
And danke schoen."
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