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From a Massive studio to Barcelona world-class development - A Gamelab Nexus Interview with Bespoke Pixel's David Polfeldt
We had talked with former Massive Entertainment's studio head David Polfeldt in several occasions in times of The Division, but now he shares with Gamereactor the very first details about Bespoke Pixel and the different approach at AAA the newly-founded, Barcelona-based studio is taking.
Audio transcription
"All right, we're in Malaga for the Gamelab Nexus and this is the Polo Digital building and I'm here standing by David So it's gonna be David versus David. David and David, the best. Thank you so much for joining us. We've been You know, we've visited you in the past. We've been talking with you Many years ago, but now let's talk about different stories and what you guys are doing now. How does a Swede, half Danish guy... I'm not half Danish I'm from the south of Sweden and the rest of Sweden likes to make fun of us So they call us half Danish, but I am half Italian and I'm really proud of that and half Swedish So Mediterranean a little bit like me. Yes, I would like to think so. Yeah. Okay. How do you decide?
You want to build a studio in Barcelona coming from Sweden?
Well, it can be a long story, but the shorter story is that I promised myself never to run a studio again It's it's a lot of responsibility and a lot of pressure and I was really happy with what I had done at Massive But I also felt like this is probably my max and I don't have an idea what I want to do next And for two years, I didn't run a studio But then this opportunity showed up at the horizon and it looked more and more interesting And I decided that if I'm gonna do it, it needs to be an adventure also Not just a job So adventure means not in Malmö because I did 17 years of video games Industry in Malmö and I loved it, but it's not an adventure for me anymore And then we started looking at places with better climate and in the end we analysed around 10 cities Including Barcelona, but to be honest Barcelona came up on top in almost every category Because of a talent available already or the talent is a huge part of it. There's a Lot a lot of really good talent in Barcelona, but I would maybe Not to offend anyone, but I also think that there are too few studios with let's say World-class ambition in Barcelona, so it's like you can be really good in Barcelona But if you really want to work with the best you have to leave Barcelona And I think that's unfair to the talent pool there because they have the world-class So we decided to put the studio inside Barcelona, which is world-class and where you can You know go to the highest mountain without leaving Spain. So Bespoke Pixel is gonna be world-class, Triple-A as well. Yes. That's exactly the idea and We have intentionally put all of the leadership and all of the decision-making in the studio in Barcelona So there's no external force that that you're used to like publishers or stakeholders or whomever but we we have Cleaned all of that out, so it's really a lot of autonomy for the team in Barcelona Wanted to ask you about specifically You know working on site Versus remotely so I guess that has to do with the philosophy that you just talked about That's part of it absolutely, and I think I apologize now for sounding a little bit like an old man but I'm not a big fan of off-site work and There there is a lot of grayscale to this It's I'm not a rigid person We're a new team and we need to develop the team dynamics And we have really really high ambitions, and we need to figure out all of the boundaries all of the friction points Where we can be better where we can be faster where we are slow all of this needs to happen on site And the way I tried to explain it to my mom is that you know making games is a team sport So if I practice football in my own backyard, and you practice football in your own backyard. We will never be a football team So the team part is where we want to be on site So we said a bit counter trend to be five days a week on site eight hours each day Very we're very strict on having people go home because we want people to recharge and come back the next day So everything they do in the evening is great for us. It's just a combination and Then we are seeing amazing results to be honest, so it's better One of my colleagues said I had forgotten How good this is and I was like me too actually being on site and spending so much time together and getting into the groove It's it's really really inspiring so better better than I thought it was What do you guys do? I know you you guys just established earlier this year. It was founded in 2024 already I think and I know you guys are hiring What can you tell me about sort of you said you just said you want to be triple-a world-class?
What can we expect from you guys, uh-huh, you know, I'm going to put my head in the kind of gear guillotine of shame And at the risk of making an incredible fool of myself I am interested right now in creating a masterpiece Because I've done a lot of stuff in video games for 30 years and most of it. I've done well enough to feel satisfied But this is the chance to really create the masterpiece and get many many things right from the start and we're attracting people who are in the same mindset right now where Where they feel I'm I think I'm pretty good, but I want to go like really really to the extreme level of my own craft So it's a little bit of an elite group with a kind of special dynamic, but we are very fond of Taking on this big promise of creating something fantastic But it's it's exciting. It just is exciting and it's way more fun than compromise So and since we don't have to compromise yet and what we're doing, of course, we're not talking about the game. But one of the many lessons I've learned is blurry vision Costs a lot of time a lot of waste a lot of energy So we're incredibly sharp on the vision the team already knows what we're doing. We know how we want to do it, etc So we're gone kind of skipped a lot of the stuff in the beginning and we are already Scratching the surface of production and we're only eight weeks in so this is weeks into production already We started eight weeks ago with our first employees on site So as you said we founded the studio in 2024, but then February Yes And then we started recruiting and then we found some people and we set the start date So we set the start date to September 1st. I think first was a Sunday So probably September 2 So we've been on site since September 2 and we are now all together. We are nine people but we are already scratching the surface of production which is I Must say mind-blowing to me because I was like I'm sure even if we make a very nice plan Yeah, and the concept stage is already gone or you're combining...? It's gone. Yes, and we're already building assets for the game Yeah, it is crazy But it surprised has surprised me too because honestly when I made the you know You make this perfect plan in your notepad and it's like how we can go to Mars. It looks amazing You know, we will have astronauts never works. Exactly. You know that because that's what reality has taught us for our entire life So even when I looked at my plans like yeah, but that would be awesome if this could happen but I also recognize that this is a desktop product, but then you try your best to Turn it into a reality and it's been mind-blowing because it works better than I thought. So I'm like, oh wait, so The result of this theory is better than the theory and I always thought the theory was a little bit too optimistic So it's gone from being, you know, probably it won't be as good as I think but let's try, to be wait, This is better than I thought but but a big part of it is on site because you create such an incredible mind-meld. And synergies..."
"Yes, and if you have the right kind of people and we're extremely picky with recruitment and I don't want to be difficult But we've only hired 4% of the people who've applied and and it's we don't want to be that difficult But we are so so particular with recruitment. But that means that the 4% that we have are Brilliant. I I love the team. I really love them Just don't take for granted that everything you plan is gonna be perfectly fine at first attempt No, I don't and I'm I'm looking now like like a paranoid man like, you know, it's like well, what am I missing?
What am I missing? And I'm expecting that. Well, you know what? I don't think it's even paranoia for sure we will hit a couple of significant road bumps where it all feels like chaos and we Crumble up under our desks and cry because game development does that to you?
Yes. Yes, it will happen. But the people we've hired also know it so they're all like whoa, this is too good But let's enjoy it, you know for now, but it's it's a nice moment Okay, you won't tell me any genre or anything that you guys are doing but At the same time, I guess you don't want to get too Massive in size and pardon the pun But I if I'm correct that was one of the reasons that made you, you know Rethink your position and what you wanted to do that the team got super massive. Yes, literally So I guess you have like a top Team size you want to achieve? Yeah, and Currently, I'm a little bit of an extremist because I I've been thinking a lot about how we make games and It's been proven. Let's start with that that you can make great games with a thousand people It's been proven by GTA or Assassin's Creed. So you can't challenge that it works, right?
In some cases it works brilliantly and you could also say that some of the best games ever made were made by very big teams But for me I've lost interest in that kind of production And I've definitely lost interest in being a manager for that kind of production. So I've been consciously trying to understand and You know even studied this a little bit With small teams and there are a couple of really inspiring examples Most of them are indie but you can make a game like Dredge with four people and I'm like, that's a really good game Sure, it's not triple-A, but it's brilliant. It's pitch-perfect So for people that is mind-blowing to me. You can look at No Man's Sky, which is a team of I think around 15 people and Valheim also like so you look at those games so-called double-a exactly the so-called double-a, but what I think they have is very very good production habits and A lot a lot to teach us if you come from my old school, which is more people will make better games But you look at them and you're right. That's not true. Actually. Yeah, it's been proven that that's also not always true My interest at the moment is to be extremely close to to the team Like, you know, I used to be a football coach. I was with the players I was in the locker room we talked about stuff but then when you're in a company like Massive you kind of gravitate and in the end you're more like the On the board like the chairman of the board and you're sitting there with stakeholders and you're talking about big stuff And you know the coach, but you're not the coach any longer and I've been longing to be back More on the pitch and it's it's a little bit more risky because you will be accountable In a way that if you're on the board of a big football club You you're not necessarily held accountable even when you should be But I like I like that risk. The repercussion is different."
"Exactly you could say that's a better way to phrase it But I I just thought if I'm honest with my personality I want to be with a small team. So we've set a cap of 20, but we're Challenging that notion all the time and right now it dropped to The team and I we agree that 16 is enough So it's going in that direction because people are well, okay, if I can't solve this problem with people, how do I solve it? And Remarkably, there are solutions that are different from hiring people And it's not AI it's not that kind of mumbo-jumbo it's really it's it's more more mundane things than AI but We might end up being 40, you know, I don't know but. Just not a thousand No, I'm not I'm no interest in that. How do you how do you feel about Massive from the fence?
It's been a couple of years. Yeah You know, they actually did release Avatar and Star Wars in the end. I I kind of love Star Wars I know it's been glitchy and it's been hit by a lot I'm really glad to hear that because I know the team made a tremendous effort for that game and and they produced it In a relatively short time if you think about it, I'm really really happy for for them and what they did I I wish it was received Better and I think with more respect because I I think it's a little bit cheap to To kick on it. I think there's a let's be honest There's an industry stigma right now where it's easy to complain about the industry. There is a big publisher stigma It's very easy to complain about EA and Ubisoft and Activision and all of them But it's that's not analysis. If you ask me that's kind of more of a Fanboyism? Yeah, or some kind of Internet bullying that I don't love and I think it lacks Real thought because it's true that these companies are in in a moment in a time of crisis And probably they deserve to be also that is my opinion, but I think it's not the dev team You know, it's not the people who did Star Wars Outlaws who busted their mm-hmm to to get it done Those are the people who are still fighting for Amazing entertainment and for gamers. So I think maybe they're not the ones who deserves to be scrutinized It also got a lot of heat even before it was shown playable just because of hate So it's not but there's an interesting story about that game and it is how you Got it offered. I mean you didn't get Star Wars offered, you got offered these This catalog, right almost I mean it was It's one of my favorite memories because it was such a clean and beautiful moment when Everybody is on the same page. But everybody in this case was just me and the Sean at Disney and Sean at that time he was in charge of all of licensing for Disney Disney video games and And We were meeting a little bit here and there and you know, I said I like Disney and they're cool things there And when I was a kid, I dreamt about being an animator at Walt Disney. That was my dream So I I'm a little bit of a Disney fanboy, you know coming from coming from the side of the craft not the business Yes, but there's some they've done some really fantastic Entertainment pieces and a lot of really good art at Disney and I think they also deserve to be respected for that Anyway, I was meeting Sean now and then and Sean met me now and then he said we should work together someday and I said we should meet so but then at some point he Invited me over to the Disney campus in Los Angeles, and he said I want to buy you lunch So he's showing me around and I was like starry-eyed like a fanboy It's amazing fountains and people, you know, this used to be Walt Disney's office and I'm like, wow cool And then he said at lunch. He said David. I have I have a question. Okay What do I need to do to work with you guys and I said and I think I meant it probably as a joke. I said well give me Star Wars And he looked at me and said we can make that happen And I was like perfect and from that second on I knew it was gonna happen because I knew Sean enough to know that Well, if he says that that's a deal done and then I have to sign on a napkin We didn't even need to sign on a napkin because we both knew it was one of those moments were like You felt the Force between the two of you Guess yes, I never thought of it. It's strong in David Yeah, probably the two Davids but no, yes you could say that's that's a really romantic way to describe it But it was absolutely true that both him and I knew that's okay So you go you go and do your homework in your organization?
I'll go and do my homework in my organization, but this is gonna happen and it's like yes, and it did And it did yeah, I think it's a little bit of fair how the game has been treated I agree But I will tell you asked me before about how I think about I miss Massive a lot because it was Incredibly important to me and I was so so loyal to the idea of what we wanted to become and the week I felt it the most was the week when Star Wars was released because Pandora and Star Wars were very much part of my thinking But when Pandora was released I knew there's still Star Wars right but when Star Wars came out it was like oh man this is something I dreamt about since I was 9 and It's also the end of my fingerprints on Massive. So everything that happens after it. Well, yeah my I Mean perhaps we can feel part of those fingertips in The Division 3. I know it's not your thing But of course the first two games we've been talking about them for years Yes, that's true. You're part of it, it's part of your spirit It's true and Snowdrop I think is a really powerful engine that I miss a lot because I'm not able to work with it now But it's an amazing engine and of course the people, you know There are a lot of people there that I'm a product of their work and they're a product of my work They trusted me. I trusted them. So of course there's a legacy But let's say that Star Wars is the last game where my name will be in the credits So, yeah indirectly there is of course a legacy But I won't be in the credits for The Division 3 and I shouldn't be because it's not my game Starting to rain. It is? Oh, in Spain?
Those are some beautiful words. Yeah you Everywhere you go you take the weather with you, you know, so you brought the weather. That's the Danish. That's the Danish, that's not That's you're half Danish. So let's let's get inside and watch Dino's panel and it's been lovely. Thank you so much for your time Thank you, take care man "
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