Commentating on the Best of the Best - Red Bull Golden Letters 2024 Interview with Spag

Audio transcription

"How are you doing?
All good, all good, chilling. How are you doing, man?
Yeah, not too bad. Excited for, you know, Golden Letters coming up?
Yeah, yeah, of course. Very excited. Always excited for Golden Letters, man."

"Excited.
It's gonna be fun.
Yeah?
Yeah.
I mean, I'll just get this started then with, you know, you're a tenured pro at sort of becoming a legend of the tech and world, I guess."

"You know, how does it feel to sort of get that sort of status as you've been going through your career?
And how do you think the franchise has evolved alongside, you know, your own personal career and aspirations and stuff?
Well, thank you for that, man. Yeah, I don't know if I'm quite there yet, but, you know, I'm trying my best on it.
But no, it's been fun, man, because, you know, we all got into this game just because we love the game and we're passionate about it."

"And none of us, and I was having this conversation with CBM. CBM is one of the Korean players.
He was in London. He stayed with me for a week a couple months ago.
And he was saying, Spag, isn't it crazy that we met each other back in Tech and Tag 2 in 2016?
And now we just come back from, you know, this massive tournament."

"And, you know, we're going to go to Saudi Arabia, playing for, you know, a million dollar prize pool.
None of us thought we would ever get to this position.
You know, Tech and Tag 2 wasn't very popular competitively.
You know, we get our majors get like 40 players maximum in the UK and stuff."

"And I don't know, it's just to see how much the game blew up in Tech and 7.
And we kind of just rode the wave and kept trying to grow the scene.
And then now where we are in Tech and 8, it's a dream come true.
Honestly, it's awesome."

"And how have you found that sort of transition going from like the pro player to the commentator host?
Sort of how was that and how have you sort of adapted to it?
Yeah, so I was obviously one of the top competitors in the UK in Tag 2 and early Tech and 7.
But when the Tech and World Tour started in Tech and 7, I was already actually commentating."

"So I was commentating some of the events around Europe.
I was one of the only UK players that was actually traveling around Europe in Tech and Tag 2.
And when some of the guys actually came up to me and said, look, we need commentators.
We have a recording going on, we have a stream."

"Can you do it? Because you're English speaking.
Whereas a lot of people like the Italian or French, they don't really speak English as well.
So I was like, look, I'll do it.
And I just noticed I really love it."

"It's so fun to watch and analyze.
I've always been a very analytical kind of guy.
And I know these players so well.
I haven't competed against them for so long."

"So when Tech and 7 came around and they needed a commentator, I made the decision to stop competing and focus myself to doing commentary because I had the opportunity to go onto the biggest Tech and channel on Twitch and teach people about my scene, my European scene."

"Not a lot of people gave us credit and gave us respect for the players that we have.
So I thought, you know what?
I'm in a good position here that I can teach the world about the European scene.
And that's what I always tried to do when I was commenting, tell the stories of the players and do all that stuff."

"So, you know, I thought to myself, what can I do more for my scene as a commentator or as a player?
And I thought probably as a commentator so I can teach these people about our guys.
And I've just been enjoying it, man.
That's good."

"I mean, we were speaking to A.O. Ritchie before, like a big, big name coming out of the UK fighting scene.
How do you think the UK fighting scene has evolved?
As you said just then, you know, getting people's names out there has been like really big over the last few years."

"And what do you think we can do to sort of like push that fighting game scene in the UK and Europe even further?
Yeah.
So A.O. Ritchie, massive story, being the first Golden Letters champion and the UK scene."

"The UK scene has always been very strong.
You know, it's been one of the strongest in Europe forever, pretty much.
You know, we've got some old school legends like Dinosaur, Starscream, Reinhardt, you know, all these big, big names that used to play back in Tekken Tag 1."

"You know, like so we've always had a history.
And, you know, Reinhardt, of course, being an EVO champion in the older Tekkens.
So we've had champion level quality in the UK for a long time.
And then when Tekken Tag 2 came out, you know, Tekken 6, these older players were the guys that were helping to teach us how to compete and how to play."

"And then Tekken 7 was no different.
Some of the biggest names that you could think of, you know, they were taught by the old school guys.
And having that kind of legacy really helped you to be able to have a strong scene."

"So I think one of the reasons why we have such a strong scene in the UK is because of the legacy, because of the players that we have.
And once a player gets to a certain level, then they can start teaching someone like Ritchie and Joker, and these guys can start teaching the new generation how to play."

"And it's just having that strong offline presence and community is what makes us so good.
Just keeping up with having local events, enough local tournaments around where these people can practice their competing."

"And then also tournaments like Red Bull Golden Letters, man, being able to give these guys an opportunity to qualify for a huge international tournament in their backyard is what allowed Ritchie to get this huge push and bolster himself up because no one was expecting him to win."

"He won the LCQ, then he won against all these international guys.
All of a sudden, people are talking about A.O. Ritchie.
But it's because, you know, this tournament was there and accessible to him.
He didn't have to fly across the world or anything."

"It was on his front door.
So it's just keeping up these big events and these local events and allowing these players to get good practice.
Yeah."

"And you're, correct me if I'm wrong, but you're an organizer slash consultant for a lot of these events as well.
What's that like?
Yeah, so I've been organizing events since Tekken Tag 2."

"So tournament organization has always been really fun to me.
I think it's just fun to be able to create things.
And then I got very lucky with meeting the Red Bull UK guys, and then they wanted to do Tekken stuff."

"And then we came up with the concept of Red Bull Golden Letters, and it's just been so fun.
I really enjoy the organization, especially with Red Bull, because they're so fun to work with."

"But also, the tournaments that Red Bull do are always fun.
There's always some quirk to it.
They don't like to do things just the normal way.
Red Bull Golden Letters, of course, has a very special rule set where if you get perfects and greats, then you can actually win a set, technically in one game."

"So it's really fun, and it's been a blast working with these guys as well.
And just organizing stuff in general really helps the community as well.
I just think it's something that everyone should do, and we've actually got some new younger guys that have joined the scene that are starting to run locals now."

"It's just sick to see, man.
What do you think, going broader towards Tekken generally as a franchise, what do you think has always drawn people to Tekken compared to other fighting games?
Well, Tekken is one of the only popular 3D fighting games, right?
So if you're not a big fan of the whole jumping and the fireballs and stuff, I know there was Akuma in Tekken 7."

"But apart from that, Tekken has always been very unique in what it brings to fighting game fans in that it's 3D and just has a different look to it.
But then also it has a very long legacy."

"I remember playing Tekken 3, and you talk to anyone, they've played Tekken 3. It was a huge game back when we were kids.
And I think that legacy really helps as well, the fact that it's been around for such a long time."

"Everybody kind of knows the name of Tekken.
And that's one of the reasons why when Tekken 7 came out and it was a lot more accessible to players because it became a lot easier in a lot of aspects."

"That's why so many people gravitated towards the game because Namco has been trying to make the game a lot more accessible without making it too easy for the intermediates to win over the pros.
The pros are still winning everything, but they've done a really good job."

"The game teaches you how to play the game now, and then there's so many ways now that the game's easier than before.
While it's still challenging, it's not so difficult.
Tekken's had this kind of reputation."

"You've got to play for four years before you can get good, and now it's not true anymore.
The game's accessible, it's easier, but still challenging.
So it's a good balance that we've struck, and I think that's the reason why so many people are playing Tekken now, because of the legacy, but also because it's a lot more accessible now."

"As you say, Tekken 8 sort of brings out a lot of accessibility features.
There's the ability to just sort of switch off even manual inputs on the combos and just sort of go like...
Obviously, you're still manually inputting buttons, but you're basically doing auto combos with just a few button presses."

"Does that create that sort of anxiety perhaps around sort of maybe down the future?
Obviously, Tekken 8's going to have a long lifecycle, but after sort of Tekken 8, where does the accessibility go?
Does it go much further than this, or do you think this is a good sort of stopping point?
I think that it's just something we've got to look at when we get there."

"I think that Tekken 8 has obviously been very popular in the beginning.
A lot of big content creators have been playing the game from other games that never played fighting games before, and looking at their experience, and it looks like they're quite happy with the rate that they've been learning at."

"Something like you mentioned, the special style, which is something they added into Tekken 8, where you can just press simple inputs and do really, really cool things.
I think that's a good gateway into kind of learning and wanting to learn the more complicated stuff."

"It's kind of like training wheels, right?
You start off with the training wheels, and then you say, you know what, I actually want to learn some of the more difficult things.
Let me start learning the more difficult combos and stuff."

"I think that kind of stuff is really, really important, just to not scare away players.
I'm telling you, if Tekken Tag 2, if any new players want to play that game, if you were not ready to get your ass kicked like a million times and just lose, lose, lose, lose, then you're not going to continue playing that game."

"But Tekken 7 was a lot more accessible.
They made throws much easier to break.
That was a huge thing. People just couldn't throw a break.
The combo system was super easy."

"Rage Arts as well, just as a casual fan, having these supers or Rage Arts were just fun to watch as a competitor, as a commentator, and as a player as well.
It's just very easy."

"So they added these things in, and now with Tekken 8, the game is teaching you how to play, and you have the special style and these kind of things.
So I don't know where that's going to end."

"I just know that no matter what they do to make the game more accessible, I think it's still going to be really challenging to get to the top because we're seeing the same people win this in Tekken 8 right now that used to win in Tekken 7."

"So it hasn't become so crazy that now anyone can win.
Tekken 8 as well feels like a really fast-paced game.
How do you think that challenges players, both maybe intermediate and pro especially, in sort of adapting to a new style?
So Tekken 7, the best way to play that game, the most optimal way was to play defensive, to have good reactions, to understand where to sidestep and backdash, and just have really strong, solid defense."

"That's why people like Arsalan Ash and me and these guys were just so dominant for so many years because their defense was so solid.
But now, of course, you have the heat system, which obviously makes the game way more fast-paced."

"If someone activates heat now, you're playing at their pace, and you don't really get the opportunity to just sit back and do nothing.
So it's a lot more active.
You've got to be a lot more active in your defense and, of course, in offense as well."

"You don't get to dictate the pace of the game as you used to in Tekken 7, being a strong defensive player.
So, yeah, the game has been a little bit difficult for some players to get used to, but it's been a lot easier for some other players."

"Like Atif Butt is one good example from Pakistan.
He's always been a very aggressive, button-heavy player, right?
So for him, it wasn't a hard transition at all to go over to Tekken 8.
We knew that guy was going to be insane in this game."

"But then for someone like me and even Arsalan Ash in the beginning was finding it very difficult to get good in this game, and he was not liking it at all.
Then Arsalan had a bit of a change in his mindset."

"He goes, you know what? I need to treat this like a new game.
I'm a newbie. I'm not the Tekken World Tour champion.
I'm not EVO champion.
I just got to treat this as a new Tekken."

"And once he had that change of mind, now he's been starting to get, obviously, great results.
He won another EVO.
Even Ni has started to play a lot more strong now ever since having that kind of mindset change of, I just need to treat this as a new game."

"It's still Tekken.
The same players are still doing really, really well, but you do have to kind of change up a little bit.
You've got to think on your feet a lot quicker."

"You don't get to dictate the pace as you used to be able to in the older Tekkens because now there's heat available.
If your opponent pops heat, you have to respect it.
So it's just one of those things."

"It's just a different Tekken.
And in this different Tekken, we've seen, as you said, new names have come out and the more established names have had to adapt in a way."

"When it comes to Red Bull Golden Letters, is there anyone specific that you're thinking will do really well in the tournament?
Is there anyone that you're thinking maybe is a bit underrated right now even?
Yeah, so looking at the people that qualified for Golden Letters and got invited, Artifbat is always going to be one of the guys that I feel like is a favorite to win."

"Ulsan as well.
Both these guys were in the grand finals of the EWC, Esports World Cup, and they're just playing incredible right now."

"So they have to be favorites, right?
But then looking at any of those players, man, on a good day, any of those guys can go super, super far.
I'm looking at Yagami right now as well from Australia, and Australia has never really got their flowers, because it's in a region that hasn't been really represented too much."

"But now with Yagami going everywhere, that's a player that I think could do really well with his trainer.
And that could surprise a lot of people."

"He's already shocked people at the Esports World Cup, but he could do that again.
I'm looking at Joker.
Joker, this is home turf for him."

"As one of the best players in the world, I think that Joker could do some big damage.
And Richie, who's already won the event as well, and he's been talking, saying that he's feeling really good."

"So Richie, man, I mean, we don't get to see many Leo players out there, man, but he is the guy you want to look at when it comes to Leo."

"So I'm excited for what he's going to bring as well.
So yeah, I'm excited for the EU guys.
I'm excited for the qualified players.
There's one player from Japan called Shonen who no one's really heard of, right?
But he qualified through the offline qualifier, and he plays Asuka and Jun."

"Not two characters that we see all too often as well, but he could cause a ton of upsets.
I mean, I've watched him play once when I was in Japan earlier this year."

"He actually beat Gosei in a tournament.
I watched him play.
That's a very awkward play.
So I think he could do a big job."

"And then the Germans, Tetsu and Nino.
I mean, yeah.
And SourPiggy, that's another guy too.
SourPiggy from America.
There's four Americans at this event."

"But SourPiggy, he qualified through the online qualifier with Kuma.
I'm looking forward to seeing how he does with his Kuma as well."

"So we're looking at, as you said before, Richie uses Leo.
Sort of kind of makes his name for both himself and the character in a way, because not a lot of people use Leo that much."

"Are there any characters that you think within the game that sort of are like that as well that you would like to see maybe used more or have sort of untapped potential?
Yeah, I think for me personally, always the character that I think has been so strong that isn't used enough is Lee."

"Lee Chaolan is a character that I don't even know if there's any Lee players.
I don't think there's any Lee players in this tournament actually."

"But Lee is a character that I think that if played perfectly, played at the potential that he has, then Lee could be very, very strong.
Just right now, the way that Tekken 8 is at the moment with the tier list, I think that Dragunov is just, if you're competing in Tekken, why are you not using Dragunov?
He's that strong."

"Dragunov, Nina with Arslan as well with what he's been doing with Nina.
Nina's definitely top three character.
Ling Xiaoyu I think is also a character that could be in that top five that no one, I'll say no one, there have been some players that are doing really well with her, but there's been two times that we've had a triple perfect in Tekken already this year on stream in Tekken World Tour."

"One of them was the Ling player and one of them is Dragunov.
So we had JDCR who did it with Dragunov in Dubai.
And then we had Ling Xiaoyu with Xiaoling from Africa."

"So three perfects in a row, right?
Ling and Dragunov.
So I think Ling can definitely do that damage.
And we have Yuyu from Japan who's coming actually, who plays Ling Xiaoyu."

"So I'm excited to see how many greats and perfects she's going to be able to get.
Because of course with golden letters, if you win with three perfects or a mixture of three perfects and greats, you automatically win the set."

"So you can actually win the whole first to three by just winning one game.
So yeah, I'm excited to see Yuyu as well with the Ling Xiaoyu."

"I think Ling Xiaoyu definitely that character that I think is so strong, man.
But not many people use it.
It's exciting stuff."

"It's really exciting.
But I've just got one more question for you.
What do you think is the potential of us seeing a Tekken Tag Tournament 3?
Man, you know, I would personally love to see Tekken Tag Tournament 3."

"I'd love to see it.
Yeah, I'd love to see it because it's so fun.
Like I started learning the game properly in Tekken Tag 2.
I played all the other Tekken, but my competitive journey started in Tag 2."

"So for me, you know, love Tekken Tag 2.
I just think that maybe the developers might be, I don't know this for sure, but they might be a little bit worried just because Tekken Tag 2 was super challenging for people to get into."

"It wasn't the best spectator esport as well.
And I don't know, maybe they'd be like, you know what?
I think the solo versus solo kind of gameplay is maybe a little bit more successful on the Tekken end."

"But hey, look, I want to see Tekken Tag 3.
Do I think that it's going to be one?
Probably not.
I don't know.
But yeah, I would love to see if they did."

"We can dream, we can dream.
Yeah, we can dream.
Spag, that's all I've got for you.
Thank you so much.
Last one, Spag."