For the Emperor - Warhammer 40,000: Space Marine II Gamescom Interview with Tim Willits

Audio transcription

"Hello everyone, I'm Alex here with Gamereactor. I'm here with Tim. We're chatting some Space Marine 2.
Tim, we are on the verge of Space Marine 2. It has quickly become a lot of people's most anticipated game of 2024.
Sadly, by the way, you can't see this, but I'm wearing my Ultramarine or sort of Titus Blue-ish."

"Maybe a bit too soft for Titus as there is a little teddy bear on the front.
But yeah, what's the anticipation like at Focus? How are you feeling?
Yeah, we're great. I mean, we're really excited about the game.
You know, the previews have been very positive. People on the show floor have been playing it."

"You know, they've been very excited, very positive.
And what we are really happy about is hardcore Warhammer 40,000 fans.
And this franchise has been around for 45 years.
They are like, this is good. This is it, you know."

"Because we had to respect the franchise and respect the universe.
And to build something that can appeal to action gamers who may not understand that and the people who love that franchise was definitely challenging.
But I think the team has really done a great job."

"As you touched upon there, it is Warhammer. It is this sort of like picking up this massive legacy.
We've seen a lot of studios do it. We've seen the original Space Marine studio do it as well.
What's it like to sort of take on that level of responsibility?
What were the sort of preparations that you went through with it?
Yes, making any game in a universe with millions and millions of followers is definitely challenging."

"But the guys in the team, our game director Dmitry Gigarenko, he has a passion and he has a love.
And he has like, you know, he loves the Emperor.
And so the team, like this is their magnus opus.
And because a lot of people don't understand that the Warhammer 40,000 franchise in universe has inspired video games for decades."

"And lots of things that people have played in other games, you can trace straight back to this.
So I hope that when people play Space Marine 2, they'll see that.
It was something similar with sort of Boltgun where you sort of see that like Doom guy, basically whatever Warhammer 40,000 fan wanted for like years and years and years to get that sort of Doom guy experience and get like a really fast paced Space Marine experience."

"But something that I really like in Space Marine 2 is that it feels like you're a walking tank.
How did that come about with sort of getting that real?
Because Space Marines unfortunately aren't real.
But you've made them almost come to life through this game in a way we've not seen before."

"Yes, that was very, very challenging for the team.
Because 45 years ago when they designed the Space Marine, I don't think they thought that it was going to be a video game 45 years later.
So the team started on that first."

"We had gray box, which means a gaming level with no textures.
And just the raw walking around was a challenge.
And then running. And then like the impacts.
And how do you hold a weapon? And just to animate."

"And to get that to work with that Space Marine armor.
Because you've seen people cosplay as Space Marines and they can barely walk down a hallway.
So it was something that the team has iterated on for years.
But working with Games Workshop, I think the team really nailed it."

"I think as well something that I spoke to the creative director, Oliver Hollis-Leak.
Great guy who spoke in detail about the amount of research that you guys did.
And something that comes across as well in the game is that not only have you got the Space Marines down, but you've got these other factions down as well."

"We're fighting Tyranids and we're fighting Chaos.
I think, especially from a visual standpoint, the Tyranids come across as really, really impressive.
Because of just how many of them you've got on the screen.
How did you accomplish that? Just in sort of general."

"And how did you make sure that even though the Tyranids, you are killing dozens of them in a single swing at times, they still feel intimidating and threatening?
So the Tyranid swarms are directly influenced and impacted by the Saber swarm technology.
So if you played World War Z, that was the first time that we developed the swarm tech."

"And that has been evolved and improved after the launch of World War Z, like Aftermath.
And so in Space Marine 2, it's the swarm 2 engine, for lack of a better description.
And then we also have a more advanced AI director.
So we're able to control so many more Tyranids."

"So in World War Z, when the Horde hits you, sometimes you have a couple of zombies break off, but they're dumb zombies.
In Space Marine 2, when the swarm hits a breaker point and the Tyranids start to break off, every one of those Tyranids are thinking and they're thinking about kicking your ass.
And in the game, the AI director balances the action."

"So you feel like you're a primary space ultramarine, so you are almost unstoppable.
But a game would not be fun if you were invulnerable.
But you are so overwhelmed, and you are hit by so many things at one time, that it truly feels like this epic, oh my god, I'm not going to make it through this battle."

"But you do because you're a badass, and it's the best feeling in the world.
Something you just touched upon there was how to make you feel powerful but not invulnerable.
Because if you look at the Warhammer 40k codexes, each codex for each faction will say they're the best.
And they're the most powerful, and they will stomp everyone in the lore."

"How do you approach a universe like that, where every faction is trying to push itself as the best?
Even when you've got the protagonists, you don't want them to just feel like they're the best guys on the field.
Yes, well, every good Space Marine has a bit of an ego.
And they fear nothing."

"But it really comes down to the engineering and the orchestration of these epic battles.
There are some scenes in Space Marine 2 that are ridiculous.
You have the Arcadians, the human-sized soldiers.
They're down there fighting, getting wiped out."

"You have other Space Marine squads doing things, your squad's doing stuff.
And then the stuff hits the fan.
It's the intensity.
And of course, as a player, you're Tidus."

"You're the best Space Marine in the whole universe.
The Emperor loves you best.
But you still have the challenges that make the game exciting.
As a player, you can be someone besides Tidus, though, as well."

"Because we've got the three players throughout the entire co-op and the entire main campaign this time.
And they run parallel.
What was the decision-making behind having these two campaigns?
So you've got Tidus, but you also have not just random co-op missions."

"You are working towards a story and a goal with that.
Yes, you are absolutely correct.
The story and the universe is so rich.
I'm pretty sure Oliver was able to talk more about this when you interviewed him."

"But we were able to create compelling...
I don't want to call them side missions because they're not.
It's a co-op campaign that runs parallel.
So when in the campaign mode, you do stuff and you hear about another squad knocking down a signal, dropping down the defenses, you play that squad."

"And you get to customize and play different classes.
So you get the variety that you would not be able to get.
Because, as you know, if you are in a certain ultramarine group, you can't be putting red armor on."

"But we give people customization.
They can progress. They can play a different class.
So you have all that variety that they were not able to do if you're just playing Tidus.
So you have the best of both worlds."

"Well, the best of three worlds in a way.
Because we also have the PvP.
Which, as you said before, in the main campaign and in the parallel campaign, we can't change from our ultramarine colors."

"But in the PvP, we can.
And we can even be evil chaos guys if we want to be.
With bringing in that much stuff, how did you decide to push the boat out that far?
Because PvP, co-op, and campaign, they could all just be each their own in one way."

"But they're all in this one.
Yes, this is such a dense game.
I made a joke earlier that if you could hold a digital version, it would feel digitally heavy.
We had to make a game this big because the universe is this big."

"And the fans expect this much.
And even modern action fans, they want a lot.
But we learned a lot developing World War Z.
The game director is the same game director."

"The progression system is similar.
The team had successes and challenges in the past that have helped give them the experience and the knowledge to make this game.
So yes, I do believe people will feel like they got their money's worth.
When they buy this game, they'll be like, you know what? This is good."

"And I feel good about it.
And we have post-launch plans, and we have lots of free content that we'll release.
We'll bundle our paid DLC just like we did with World War Z, so we're not going to poke people.
And I really do feel that gamers are going to appreciate what we've made."

"I think I recently replayed the first Space Marine to get a gist just before I tried the preview build.
And something that I noticed was that you guys have not just made it like a homage.
You've gone with this sort of built-up combat system.
Could you talk a bit more about what went into that?
Because the melee is much deeper this time."

"There's a parry system.
There's also these much more detailed bosses that we saw as well.
Yes, you are absolutely correct.
One of the principal goals of the team was to make the entire combat system deeper, more tactile."

"I like to call it the dance of death, where you're just not mashing the button.
It's not an old-school shooter. I hate that phrase.
It is a modern, kick-ass game.
And just like you said, you can block, but you can grab."

"And then you can do the critical shots.
But you also need to keep moving.
So I really do think that there are lots of tools in your combat toolbox that you can deploy and use to win the battle, especially when you play against another human."

"Tyranids are one thing, but people are smart.
And you definitely have to move, shift, block, hit.
So it's not just a straight shooter. It's not just a straight melee game.
And you talked a bit there about humans playing different from Tyranids, but we've also got the Chaos."

"How are they going to play differently from Tyranids?
They can't really swarm up, but they are much tougher individually.
Yes, they are much tougher individually, and they have defense.
They can move differently."

"They have better weapons.
So yes, they move differently. They think differently.
They have better weapons. They're much tougher.
But they're just as fun to glory kill, though."

"Does it come with different design systems that go into creating those different enemies, or is it tweaked ideas for the enemy design?
It's a little of both.
Our AI programmers, they're given a task."

"And we had to adhere to the lore as well.
And we had to work closely with Games Workshop, because we couldn't have enemy types doing things that aren't allowed in the universe.
So that was also a challenge."

"You mentioned something about the boss encounters.
The team spent a lot of time making bosses more fun.
And making boss fights is hard.
Trust me, it's really hard."

"So I think that we have a really good balance between the hordes that are crazy, and then each individual Tyranid has a different kind of fighting style, I guess.
And then with the Chaos Marines and the bosses, you're not button mashing in this game.
We have seen, as well as you guys have taken a lot of experience from World War Z, there's also the Fat Shark Horde games that have been successful with Warhammer as well."

"Did you guys take a look at any inspiration from them?
Yeah. Those games are great. Millions of people play them.
They have a lot of good progression examples.
They make you want to keep playing, which is critical to a long-term success of any game, that you just want to come back."

"One of the things that we have, we have classes.
When you play PvE, it'll know if you've played the missions before, and it'll change up some of the enemies.
You may play it again, and you may go, Oh my god, it's Chaos Marine, where did he come from?
We have the tools to make you feel like you want to get back in the game."

"You have this linear campaign as well with bringing back Titus, what led to bringing him back, because at the end of the first Space Marine, it's a bit up in the air what happens to Titus.
There's this direction that you can go with bringing him back, but was there ever a point where you thought, maybe we'll tell a different Space Marine story?
That's a good question."

"It's probably a better question for Ollie and Dimitri, but Titus, he was Signature Marine, and to answer what happened to him.
He was banished, he got too close to Chaos, people didn't trust him, then he spent 200 years in the Death Squad, but he's been killing Tyranids, and they brought him back, and Kalgar maybe has a soft spot for him, I don't know."

"I think it was a good way to bring him back, but to also start a new story for him, because if you have not played Space Marine 1, do not stress about that."

"Just play Space Marine 2, we got you covered, the story is a normal start, and normally ending, and Titus is an important character.
We've got new characters as well this time around, as Titus' squad, the people who will be your co-op marines."

"Can you talk a little bit about them, and what we can expect to see with the dynamic between the three of them, as you will progress with France?
One of the things that the team wanted to do, is to make the human side, for lack of a better term, more relatable, and actually show that these Space Marines have personalities."

"Yes, you follow the codec, but Titus has learned that maybe you need to bend things a little bit, and obviously he has a checkered past, so his squad mates don't really trust him, but then they have their own issues, and it just makes for a more compelling experience, when you start to actually care about that guy."

"So it kind of enhances the overall experience, and it helps people who are not familiar with the universe.
They can come in and be like, oh, okay, I can relate to this, these guys are having challenges, but they're also badasses."

"So I really do think it helps make the story deeper, even though people don't really expect Space Marines to be deeper.
Makes sense?
I think something as well that stepped up is the cinematics."

"I think it's something that is maybe, well, you've probably explained it very well better than me, is a step up from the technology, as we saw with the Swarm, something like that?
Yes, the cinematics were, we felt critical to telling that story, because it is, I mean, it's a combat game, but you want to, and it helps kind of show the, give more background to the universe, to show how big the universe is, to show how complex the universe is, and sometimes it's hard to do that on the fly."

"So between the missions, as you saw, we showed Titus talks, Squadmates talk, you talk to Calguard and your captains, and you talk to, you go to the Mechanicus Adaptus."

"So it really kind of helps explain the universe and make people feel more comfortable, if they're not hardcore Warhammer 40K fans.
We've seen a lot of hype around this game from people who aren't Warhammer 40K fans."

"I know a lot of people who I know personally who aren't into Warhammer are still talking about Space Marine.
What do you think bridges that gap for people who maybe aren't into Warhammer to get into this game, even though it's something, a sequel, and it's got the Warhammer 40K tag?
Because it's a kick-ass action game, and because other games, I know this for a fact, because I've done that, I've taken things from this universe and put them in their games."

"If you are an action fan, there's no better game to play right now than this game.
And there's been great successes with other action games this year, and all those fans can go right into playing Space Marine 2."

"So, yes, it has a 2 on it, but it's a complete game for everybody.
And you talked just then about the completeness of it.
You guys originally planned to release, I believe, in last winter."

"That was sort of a vaguer release window.
How has the extra time helped you polish what Space Marine 2 is?
Yes, the extra time was great.
You know that old saying that a game is only late until it chips, but a bad game is bad forever?
You know, like we talked about before, it's a dense game."

"There's three, almost four modes to play, and all that has to be perfect.
And our fans expect that to be perfect, and the technology is so advanced that the team just needed time to make it right, and it was well worth it."

"Trust me, it was well worth it.
And the technology is super advanced, but there's going to be a lot of people maybe wanting to play on weaker systems.
How will Space Marine 2 sort of run on those?
I think we... Did we release our specs yet publicly?
Yes, yes, yes."

"Yeah, I mean, if you have an older computer, you know...
Yes, trust me, in my entire career, people have had to upgrade their computers to play some of my games.
But no, we run great on the PS5 and Xbox Series X."

"We're over at the Xbox booth.
So, yeah.
For me personally, I love playing on a PC because I can just max, max, max, max, max."

"But no, it runs great on modern consoles.
And we have cross-play.
And is that cross-progression as well?
You know, I don't know, to be honest."

"Someone else asked me that question, and I was like, oh, I don't know.
Because every time I play, I have to reset everything anyway.
So I'm not sure."

"But I think if we haven't said that yet, I think we will at some point.
I'm the same. I'm cross-playing, but cross-progression, I'm like, do I jump from Xbox to PC?
It seems like a rich man's problem in a weird way, yeah."

"Yes, that is a first-world problem.
But something as well that I found really, really impressive, something that goes back to what we were talking about with the Space Marine design is the sound design of the game."

"How do you manage to get something that is, once again, not real, a sort of sci-fi gun, and yet make it feel like it's something that you could pick up and hold and shoot, probably shouldn't shoot tomorrow?
Yes, the sound engineering in video games is very tricky."

"My personal secret advice is, if you're a sound designer, whatever weapon that you're building for, don't make it sound like that weapon.
Make it sound like the weapon above it."

"I mean, even back in old Doom days, our double-barrel shotgun was like a little mini-cannon.
And our AK-47-type weapon was an AR-74 sound.
So you always needed to make a sound for what's bigger."

"And then, because that's the most important thing in games, is the weapons have got to sound amazing.
And it's just work and iteration.
We've gone with a different voice for Titus this time around."

"How do you think that will affect the change in character that we see in him as well?
Yes, so Clive Standen is the voice of Titus.
He's a huge Warhammer fan. He's a good friend of mine."

"And I think he nailed it.
He's got that solid, straight, I'm Titus, I follow the rules.
But yet, when things start to bend a little bit, he can bring some emotion also into his voice and his acting."

"And he's been great supporting the game.
He reposts all my silly posts about it.
So, yes, it's great working with him.
People know him as Rolo from Vikings."

"There was some article that said his character was the toughest character in the entire series.
And he's like, yeah, I'm like, go Titus! So, yes, it's been great working with him."

"And you talked a bit before about post-launch content.
Without spoiling anything or anything like that, what can fans expect to see when they're looking towards the future of Space Marine?
Yes, so game modes will be free, weapons will be free, game modes will be free, any new maps will be free."

"So we'll have quality of life updates, we'll have some game modes, I believe.
And then we'll have packs of customizations that you can actually purchase."

"And I think next week we release our roadmap, or kind of a high-level roadmap.
And there's also a lot of customization in the base game.
It's all unlockable through play, correct?
Yes, yes, yes."

"There are no weird micro-transactions.
Tim, that's about all I've got for you, actually.
Thank you so much for your time.
Yes, it was a pleasure."

"I'm glad you played it, and I'm glad you enjoyed it.
I loved it.
I can't wait to kill more things.
I'm probably going to go back to it at some point soon."

"But, yeah, thank you so much.
Thank you."