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A Way Out
Hazelight - Josef Fares Interview
It's always a pleasure talking with Hazelight founder Josef Fares, and that's what we got to do once more at Gamelab in Barcelona.
Audio transcription
"We are in Barcelona, we are at Gamelab 2019, and it's always nice to catch up once again with Josef.
Thank you so much for joining us.
No problem, man, I'm always here."
"Let's do it.
You shared a panel with David Cage on where are the limits of video games.
Did you agree where are we going to find those limits in the foreseeable future?
I mean, I would say we agreed on many things, but we also disagreed on other stuff."
"So it was a very interesting discussion, actually.
I think we have the same approach, and we have the same ideas about some stuff, and not the same ideas about other stuff, which is interesting.
That made it an interesting discussion, though."
"Like, I'm way more into the interactivity part, and I think he's way more into, like, choosing and decision part.
And I do feel that I would like to explore more how game mechanics can be part of the storytelling.
So that's what differentiated us a little bit."
"On the other hand, it was a really fun time.
He's a great guy to sit and talk to, actually.
I remember you were actually quoted some years ago, I don't know, a couple of years ago, saying that you were being compared way out, being compared to Quantic Dream games, and you said that it was a much more passive experience."
"So I think that's one of the points you disagree, or the different approach you have when designing games.
Yes, that's definitely one of them.
I would say that in a way out case, it's a combination between a Naughty Dog game and a Quantic Dream game."
"There's something in the middle.
And that's something that I feel could be done better for the next game, making the mechanics even more playable, and connecting the mechanics to the story more, which I actually will do in the next game."
"And that's why I'm still very excited.
But what I can say about the next game is it's not a way out, too.
It's something totally different.
But you will definitely see that it's a Hazelight game."
"So I'm super excited.
Fuck, it's going to be good.
That's one of the things that we keep pushing, like interactivity.
How can we do this?
How can we do this part of the story, and blah, blah, blah, and stuff like that."
"But at the same time, you're also based much of the experience in motion capture.
So I think we can expect that to grow and to be there as well, like you basing your whole experience, but now with better resources on a stronger team now."
"Yeah, yeah, we're definitely...
We're the same team, but way more experienced.
We're a bigger team as well, and we're making a bigger game.
And it's super exciting."
"We've only been going for a year, but I mean, I'm so excited to start to show it yet, you know.
But it's going to be very different from a way out.
Very different."
"You said it was going to be cooperative as well, but just in a new way.
Did I say that?
I think that's mentioned in the video.
Aha, which..."
"Ah, yeah, yeah, yeah, with the...
Yeah, what do you mean, the video that was released now?
In the EA Play?
Yeah, yeah, yeah, I did say."
"Yeah, it's going to be good, but something totally different, yeah.
All right.
A way out is available in several platforms.
I know you've been asked to port the game to the Switch, and there were several reasons why it didn't happen yet."
"So I don't know if something changed in terms of the plans for this game to be available on the Switch on those reasons.
I mean, the thing is with the Switch, is that if people are thinking of taking away the controller like this, they only have one stick, and this is a third person, so you need to control the camera as well."
"So, I mean, the only way I can see you can do it is probably hold the button and do the camera, or maybe use the gyro to control the camera, or do an automatic camera."
"So in general, it's not really fit for it, but who knows, it might in the future come.
I don't have anything against it, it's just that we're not going to do it, you know."
"Actually, PS4 and Xbox One, by default, you only have one controller, so it's the very same.
No, it's not really, because one controller is like, you have one controller with two sticks, so one you can control the camera."
"Same as on the Switch, you have one controller.
Yeah, but you need to have, look, it's a co-op game, so you need to have two controllers.
Yeah, but you only get one with a PS4, and that's what I mean."
"Okay, okay, you mean that you have to buy one extra controller, is it?
Ah, okay, like that, yeah.
Or play online, right?
Yeah, yeah, but I think most of the people that think of a way out on Switch want to use that, so that's a problem."
"Like, you have it already.
Yeah, so if, I mean, and also, it feels like, if you force someone to buy an extra controller on Switch, it's different than buying an extra controller on console."
"I don't know, it feels different, they would be very upset, like, I won't buy an extra controller for this, and blah, blah, blah, you know how things can go.
But yeah, but I mean, it could happen, but we're not going to do it, I'm focusing."
"I mean, for me, a way out is done, it's over.
If it happens to be that somebody else does a remake for Switch, I'm super fine with it, but we're not going to do it.
And by the way, Brothers is actually releasing on the Switch, so that's really nice."
"I don't know if you can tell us about the experience of playing that one on the Switch.
Yeah, it's fine, I mean, the thing is, like, for me, it's kind of, it came out 2013, so the only thing that the guys who did it asked me is that, is it okay that we make it so that you can play with two?
I'm like, yeah, sure, because it's already, because it's intended to be played with one controller, so I said yes to it, it's fine, it's good that it's on Switch."
"I don't know how it's doing, and for me, it's fun that it's on Switch, but everything is on Switch right now.
It feels like, I mean, Switch doesn't have so much unique content, really."
"It's all about, like, remakes, and not remakes, but ports, like a lot of ports.
But I do have some unique content.
I mean, I have a Switch, of course, and right now I'm playing, what am I playing?
Actually, I'm playing, what is it called?
Yeah, I tried this Crash Bandicoot."
"It's quite fun.
Racing game, or the platformer.
No, the racing games.
Yeah, like, try how it feels.
It's kind of like a nostalgic thing, you know?
Yeah."
"Being a filmmaker yourself, what sort of inspiration did you get as of late coming from movies?
I mean, I think for me, like, movies are movies and games are games."
"So they, I don't, I mean, I get kind of inspiration with some storytelling aspects, but mostly I'm focusing, like, how can we tell stories in video games?
How can we use the mechanics for it?
That's what triggers me a lot."
"So, and there's nothing particular with the movies I get inspired of, like, that I use in game, really.
It's more like, how can we take games to the next step?
Like, in storytelling, in game mechanically, gaming, like, interactivity."
"That's what I love about gaming, man.
Last time we talked, you already mentioned that you were growing stronger, and the studio was not made of..."
"Growing stronger with monsters as well.
Exactly, like, something like that.
You're working out, very good.
So you said, like, this time you were approaching the new project, which I know you cannot talk much about, but with a different ambition, different experience, expertise."
"So what can you tell us about that philosophy and how it feels at the office?
Yeah, it's really good mood in the office.
I will go around and fuck shit up all the time."
"It's like, it's a good mood.
Like, we go around, like, I tell the designer, like, come on, more, more, let's do this.
That's fine."
"You know, it's a really good energy at our office.
But the next game, it will be more...
I would say that the mechanics will be more part of the storytelling."
"That's my...
And I think a lot of people will be surprised.
So, I mean, you know, I can't talk so much because we are so...
We're only a year into production, so it's like..."
"But a lot has happened, a lot.
Looks really cool.
When can we expect to learn more?
I don't know yet.
It's hard to say."
"It depends how...
Yeah, it's hard to say.
But you wait for it.
I will.
Will you?
Be excited for it."
"All right.
I think that's a nice closer.
Thank you so much, Vicente and Jose.
Thank you.
Great to meet you."
Gamelab
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